"Logan" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

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Logan, you still have time. Rate this movie.

  • *****

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • ****1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ****

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • ***1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ***

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • **1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • **

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • *1/2

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • *

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Yojimbo

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Shahdaroba
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#1
One Last Time...



Logan
Release date: March 3, 2017
Studio: 20th Century Fox
Director: James Mangold
MPAA Rating: R (for strong brutal violence and language throughout, and for brief nudity)
Screenwriters: Scott Frank, James Mangold, and Michael Green
Starring: Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart, Dafne Keen, Stephen Merchant, Boyd Holbrook

Plot Summary: In the near future, a weary Logan cares for an ailing Professor X in a hide out on the Mexican border. But Logan's attempts to hide from the world and his legacy are up-ended when a young mutant arrives, being pursued by dark forces

Discuss Wolverine's last movie right here! Sound off!

Related Threads:
-X-Men: Apocalypse Feature Talkback
-Deadpool Feature Talkback
-X-Men: Days of Future Past Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Wolverine Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-X-Men: First Class Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-X-Men Origins: Wolverine Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-X-Men: The Last Stand Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-X2: X-Men United Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-X-Men Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-Logan Pre-Release News & Discussion (Spoilers)
-X-Universe Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)

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defunctzombie

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#3
Wall 'o Text ahead. ;)

I will preface with this: VIOLENCE. SWEARING. R RATING!!! :D I'll compare to Blade and Deadpool, since yes some people forget there was another R rated comicbook movie before the red suited menace. If I remember Blade right, Logan has more of both, but compared to Deadpool I'd have to say it's a tie for violence. Deadpool has a lot of shock violence (as in "hi I just smashed a guy into a road sign after decapitating him with a bike chain"), while Logan is full of claw violence and a few short scenes of what I'll call healing factor violence (more later). I can't remember Blade being that nasty (maybe Spawn went there, but Spawn is its own category of cool). Swearing wise, I'll wait for the youtubers to count 'em up. DP and friends rank in at 84 F bombs, whereas Logan may be in the 50s? TBH I wasn't counting. I just knew as soon as I heard three or four out of CHARLES I knew this was going to be a rough movie.

Charles cursing is surprising, but then again I can understand why he would take to such language. We saw him do a little of it when he was depressed in Days of Future Past, so wouldn't he naturally step up once all his mutant children are gone and the world is a desolate place as it was? Speaking of the good natured Professor, there were some giggles in the theater when Logan called him Chuck, that was a cool nod.

And nods abound, as I was glad to see. I knew there would be some comics from the trailers (that I tried to avoid), but I didn't expect some old movie references. Charles and Laura share a tender moment over one of his favorite flicks in a hotel room, Logan is recognized as the Wolverine early in the film, there's a nod to an earlier franchise installment, and of course the overall references to Old Man Logan. The violence in the film has been noted as excessive by some, to which I say go get a copy of Old Man Logan and read that sucker. The pages starting from the SNIKT spread in particular are exactly what this movie is going for.

If you watch the previous standalone Wolverine installment, you'll notice that it does not have a "save the world" theme like other comic book movies made around the same time. Logan definitely follows that same idea. This is a character movie first and foremost, not a superhero movie (even though several characters look up to Logan as a hero). It's appropriate that the title is Logan and not Wolverine in that regard, much like The Dark Knight is more of a crime thriller and less of a Batman movie.

And now the meat of my post. Do not click on the following.

DO. NOT. CLICK. UNLESS. YOU. WANT. TO. BE. SPOILED. MAJOR SPOILER

I CALLED IT! XD They may not have called him Daken or given him the same claw configuration, but I just knew he would show up so I am glad we got the male clone as the big adversary. Jackman playing him was interesting, that I was not expecting. It made the fight more intense. I did feel sorry for the family he slaughtered as well, then again we saw this happen in Origins. And of ALL the movies to reference, they referenced the bomb of the franchise! Jeez, I can barely sit through that and they go and make one of the silliest parts of it an important plot point. Wow. I was expecting the Professor to die, but I thought it would be from old age. It was a little poignant to see Logan assuring him that he didn't do it, then again I'm sure Charles knew so.

As soon as I got home from seeing it, the first thing out of my mother's mouth- did he die? *facepalm* Yeah, well, we were all expecting that part, but I think it was handled well. I like that they at least made it a noble death instead of a cheap death. Laura's speech referencing the movie was very touching. And of course her calling the dying Logan Daddy is just a little too much. :crying:

And for those that go see it, as I said get to the theater on time. There is no after credits stinger, but there is a preshow bonus. You'll love it.

This is a definite 5/5. A great send off, the Wolverine movie we all wanted to see, and it makes me sad that there are people whining that it's R rated. Take your kids to Lego Batman, this is for the adults.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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May 18, 2006
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East Northport
#4
Well we are now officially in March which is looking to be one of the busiest Marches in a while in terms of having a lot of major box office tent poles as week after week, studios are going to go with one major hit after another based on some sort of major license. In this case we get the first live action super hero movie of the year and Fox's only entry into the year. Since as of yet we don't know exactly what FOX is suppose to be doing with the other X-Men related movies in the next few years (and hopefully after Fantastic Fail that's the only marvel property they're allowed to touch again ever) or how they're going to play the movies. I kind of am hoping they're going to stop doing as many major Apocalypse level movies since though that was okay I think at this point it's proven the FOX films can't do those sort of 4 quadrant uber releases like the MCU can. And should focus on movies like DP or like this: smaller scale more visercial and raw movies not overpacked with characters and can pick a more solid tone. Which they might do considering how well DP did and how good press this is doing. Which is especially impressive considering Wolverine solo movies aren't the hottest ticket. Origins did fairly well in box office but terribly with ciritcs and The Wolverine did okay with critics but sans the international Asian market would be the lowest X Men doing movie ever. This could change things around. Granted I do think it's annoying this is some sort of alternate reality separate from the main continuity despite the fact this is suppose to be Hugh Jackman's last Wolverine movie. Which feels like a weird disconnect but eh guess most of the X-Men movies now have that due to there not being a straight connecting continuity. This one is also a Suicide Squad situation as one of the major players introduced is actually a character from the comics who didn't start in the comics but X23, a character from X-Men evolution. Aka the X-men series I know most about and I do remember sort of liking the character at first due to the emotion but not caring much for as they went forward. Could this change me more on the character and really end the Wolverine character and movies and this part of the X Movie verse on a bang?

Well if by bang you mean pretty depressing but definite note that does work emotionally even if it does have some issues then yeah I'd say mission accomplished. (Warning spoilers ahead which is why the rest of this is in spoiler tags)

First off I'm going to talk about the issues I had with this movie since I did have a few. I think it was a stupid not really well explained move that they just left Pierce after Laura knocked him out and Logan just told Calliban to drop his body outside to be found. I mean pretty obvious he was the one who had people kill Elizabeth so just off him when you had the chance. I guess Logan only feels like killing when someone strikes back first but eh still seemed like a "we have to still have him for the story but still don't have a good reason to have him taken out." I also think it would of been impactful even if it was just brief glimpses to show the others in a little mini flashback of the incident of Charles destroying the mansion in Manchester. Seriously hearing it in that moment is powerful but it would of been gut wretching if we saw the students actually die from that. Kind of like how Wolverine and the X-Men opened with that power surge from Jean Grey but would of been you know allowed to actually show people visually die. Since honestly just hearing Logan talk about how people die around him does feel a bit empty when you aren't shown it. Yeah I know it was in the other movies and obviously this did happen in some extent of that universe but still feels lacking not to see it. I guess they didn't want it to be ghost Jean Grey from the Wolverine again but even just a small flashback would of worked. A more obvious story problem would be that the big bad that Transgien have (yeah I don't know what was with all that Mr. Sinister hinting with Essex if that didn't play a part at all in this movie. Maybe for another upcoming X-Men movie but didn't Bryan Singer said the teasing was for the next Wolverine movie... ugh see these teases in a disconnected universe are really annoying) which is really just another Wolverine. I guess they didn't want the mistake of having like a super named character or anything if they were just going to use it as a lap dog after the backlash they got with Deadpool but... just having it be "X 24" and more fit brainwashed snikt snikt Wolverine isn't really that memorable a final opponent. Maybe if it were a darker Wolverine who just liked killing and was more on the villains side but an animal one kind of makes for a more boring fights with him especially since it took a second to realize there was another Wolverine. I mean you already have Wolverine and X23, did you really need a THIRD Logan esque character in the mix? I also think there was a bit too much time spent lounging around in the third act. I get doing it somewhat with the family to have a nice actual moment and I did get a sense of character from them but I don't think we needed to spend so much time with the kids goofing off and trimming the beard. Thankfully they didn't really give these guys personalities and powers since yeah all non Deadpool X-Men movie had a problem introducing too many characters too quickly with no time to really develop them that this one didn't but that's all the more reason some of that time could of been cut. I get that it was suppose to be more time for Wolverine and Laura bonding but it's really what made the movie feel it's 2+ hour length. Also I did find it annoying after Charles died now Laura decided to start actually talking. I thought at first maybe she would just speak Spanish with a bit of broken English but no she spoke perfectly well at the end. Honestly besides just being shy and confused that could of been better explained like maybe Charles using his telepathy opened her language block. I mean he could still use it somewhat even with the pills so I'd buy that but that wasn't what was said so... that's another problem.

I bring up those issues since honestly the rest of the movie was actually really well done. This has probably if not the best overall fights of the X-Men movie the most visercal and satisfying encounters. Seriously they really hit the ground running with their R rating showing Wolverine take out those guys shooting at his car and honestly didn't let up. Which is funny considering this is co-starring the character created from the kid show made to make a more juvinelle take on Wolverine that gets the more gory take on the character but yeah totally works here. Any of the minor action the trailers show doesn't show the full length of them from the chase away from the hidden compound with Laura sneaking and gutting people to the scene where Charles has his powers going and Wolverine has to get to the room and gut the people being held in check to seeing the clone Wolverine slice up all those a-hole farmers and Calliban blow up the truck while the father pinned X-24 to a truck and took shots at him to at least knock him out to yeah the finale. I liked seeing all the kids actually manage to start showing off their powers especially the one who froze one guy's hand off to another piercing those two guards and the kid with the Magneto powers and I just love when the kids pinned down Pierce and starting offing him with all of their powers. That's one of those great satisfying villain deaths you really get to feel you honestly don't get as often as you should so that was appreciated as was Wolverine shooting Zander mid monologue and X-24 being killed by an adamanetum bullet. I guess this isn't going by stupid Origins Wolverine logic of that actually just giving you amnesia but used more as a way for Logan to kill himself if he felt he needed to. Which works for me. And honestly the actual comedy in this one was good. They got the ball rolling really well with the Deadpool in phone booth as superman joke and being late so the guy was just killed (part of me thinks that maybe that was going to be the end creidts teaser but they realized "that would not work for the ending so let's move it to the beginning instead) and then in the actual movie the montage of the various fares Logan's limonsine was getting, Pierce talking about being fans and recognizing the various X-men related characters he saw and being smary with them, out of it Xaiver talking about "I always know who you are I just forget you" and being all dimensia out of his mind like he was playing Avery from American Dad but worked in well, Calliban pointing out how Wolverine never talks to him about his problems and about not being able to go on the planned boat trip he and Xaiver were supposed to go on, Laura being possessive of her ball and of her bag, the shot of her eating cereal as people were coming to get her, Logan not wanting to talk about being a possible father, Laura getting Logan to buy her clothes at that casino and not wearing that goofy hat, Xaiver rambling about the movie they were watching, Charles pointing out that Laura has foot claws makes sense because female cheetahs/lepoards in nature actually operate that way and Logan's annoyed reaction to that, actually agreeing to spend time with that family and Charles trying to encourage the kid to stay in school and Logan talking about how long he spent as a professor, spooking those jerks trying to threaten that farmer by breaking the gun (I was confused though if the dad knew Logan was a mutant since he said that but was then surprised by Logan's mutant powers or was it just his training... that could of been cleared up better) Logan's annoyed reaction at Laura suddenly speaking (you know maybe if that was more proununced I'd be fine with it and they drug that out a bit more but they didn't), Logan cursing out in agony when the car wasn't working and Laura watching him (yeah this movie also has a lot of f and s bombs dropping. It works really well in the movie and though the cursing isn't as funny as Deadpool's it still really fits honestly)Laura stealing the car and Logan trying to tell her that was wrong and... I guess that's all the moments of mirth as the rest of this was pretty depressing and sullen but it honestly worked.

Since thinking about it though we have had a fair amount of R rated Comic Book movies, very few of them have been this grim and depressing. I guess recently there was Watchmen but that was not only just re-telling a story instead of telling their own tale (I know this is based on Old Man Logan but I know enough about Old Man Logan to know at best this is a very very veryyyyyyyyy loose adapation) and honestly was still this at least half way fairly colorful and bright movie. This was not that at all as though there were moments of levity the main tone of this movie was about how depressing and dour this world is with nearly all the mutants dead and Xaiver out of it and Wolverine working this crap job and not really having any major future plans and everyone they come across even on this journey dying terribly. And I have to say that they earn these dramatic moments. Like I didn't hate Origins Wolverine when I first saw it but I never thought any of the drama of that movie worked at all. Here though with Charles rambling about the old days wondering what happened and what he did and then later realizing it and how that shook him, that video journal Elizaeth made of what Trainsgen was doing to these kids and showing some of them snuffed or trying to be made into weapons (we never did figure out what totally replaced them. It can't be Wolverine clones since those seemed to have specific limitations on it like kid soldiers would so had to be something else), and Logan's whole bitter cynical attitude. At first I thought it was just because of the situation he was stuck in and having lost everyone and though it's partially that it's just his annoyance of constantly being dragged into to struggle and having nothing to show for it ever and anytime he tries to step up to be a hero more and more people die and showing that throughout the film honestly worked. And him actually telling X-23 he'd be a terrible father and she's better off without him actually did work and made you realize this is the bad ass yet totally screwed up fury angst Wolverine other films tried to give but this one honestly perfected. I also thought from the trailers him mocking the comic was just in poor taste but no that's actual a part of the narrative and actually ties into the character of him not liking the fake stories people make up of what happened and thinking it doesn't exist and honestly we aren't shown if it does or not so that could be up for the future and I like that as well. And the actual bonding that he and X-23 did was good and honestly I really liked this take on Laura. Yeah her learning English was too fast but otherwise her look at the world and drive and grief and anguish worked a lot more. I did feel that a bit from her X-Men evolution debut but this one is a much better character that doesn't feel like someone's Wolverine fan fiction but rather trying to give him an actual connection. And honestly this movie more then most earns it's dramatic death scenes as yeah Xaiver and Logan bite it in this one and both are rather heart breaking and I'm honestly glad it's pretty clear they are dead with no way of bringing them back. If there is hope it's Laura and the kids but pretty clear this old generation in this movie is dead so if there's going to be any spinoffs of this movie it has to star X-23 and honestly I'd be for that as there seems like there could be future plots with that and Dafne Keen seems like now that she can speak more and hold her own in a scene she could hold a movie.

So yeah there were some issues I did have but the rest was still really solid and again one of the best X-Men movies. It's not as good as Deadpool and honestly the scope and the ending of Days of Future Past probably put it above this one but this is definitely a solid third of all the X-Men movies and again at least the Wolverine films ended wayyyyyyyyyy better then they began and so glad that is the case.
 

WebMasterSage

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Jun 17, 2015
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#8
This was the most Violent Movie I have seen.
Just all that Blood sums it up.

But in the end it was a Fantastic Movie. And Sad later on. I'm Really gonna miss Hugh Jackman as Logan.
 

defunctzombie

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#9
Very nice review with only mild spoilers (nothing heavy on the plot, no twists): http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2017/03/logan-might-be-the-most-important-superhero-film-ever

Edit: not related to the above, but I just thought of something.

MAJOR SPOILERS below, including one for Captain America Civil War:

Remember how if you paused the one Civil War trailer at just the right moment, you could see Bucky on the ground with his arm blown off? Well what do you know, right in the first trailer:



This is why I didn't want to see any trailers, and I'm glad I only remembered him laying on the ground and not the details. Laura's claws aren't that long. >_>
 
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RoryWilliams

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#10
I thought it was an incredible sendoff. There were a few parts I didn't like
(Namely doing ANOTHER evil Wolverine plot, though it was at least handled way better than Deadpool in Origins, and the reveal that the scientist was behind the extinction of the mutant race seemed really tacked on and last minute)
but overall, I loved it.

There's a real sense of underlying tension that I think was missing from the first Wolverine movie.
 

Freddy

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Aug 1, 2012
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#11
I saw Logan yesterday. In my opinion, there are now three truly great X-Men movies (if you are curious, the other two are First Class and Deadpool), but I wouldn't call this movie the next big superhero movie masterpiece like so many critics are.

All the essential elements work wonderfully. Jackman and Stewart give their best performances as these characters, the girl playing Laura has a promising career ahead of her and the action scenes are precisely as visceral as they should be in a movie like this. The story is pretty basic "broken man must learn to care again with the help from young girl", but all the Wolverine - stuff keeps it being too formulaic.

However, I do have some strong criticisms. Firstly, the villains were lame and boring. Pierce was incompetant moron, who never posed a serious threat to the heroes, and Dr. Rice didn't have enough screentime to leave an impact one way or the another.
The Clone-Wolverine (Cloverine?) was a huge blunder. Not only was it completely at odds with the tone of the movie, but it feels like a huge waste of potential to have Wolverine fight his clone in his final adventure, when none of his classic villains have had truly great movie appearance to date. Wouldn't it have been more cool and effective, if they got Liev Schreiber back as Sabertooth or something like that?

During the third act, there were also some serious holes in the story's inner logic.
All those mutants children kinda bothered me. Supposedly, they have all gone through the same experiments and military training, and none of them have any experience with the outside world, but for some reason Laura is the only one with visible trauma and lack of knowledge on how the behave in real world.

The adamtium bullets make a return from the Origins and make even less sense. I perhaps could believe that one could blow a chunk out of Clone-Wolverine's skull, if it was shot with a cannon or something, but a normal handgun is pretty hard to stomach. It kinda felt like that the writers wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't figure out any other way to kill the Clone-Wolverine.

My main complaint about the very premise from the movie, that I had from the very first trailer, still stands. This movie makes all the future X-Men movies pointless. Why should I care what happens when the young Jean Grey turns into the Phoenix or when the New Mutants face the Demonbear, when I know that all of them will die unceremoniously without making a difference in the world and the mutantkind as a whole is going to be at the brink of extinction? Granted, this doesn't affect the quality of Logan itself and I have made no secret that I'm planning to stop seeing X-Men movies in theaters (outside of Deadpool sequels) anyway, so whatever.

Anyway, Logan is very good conclusion for Jacman's rocky journey as Wolverine. It isn't 100% satisfying and I can't help, but to feel that I would have liked to see a lot more from him before this day came, although it is better for him hang the claws now rather than later.
 

hobbyfan

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Jun 9, 2002
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Troy NY
#12
My bro & I just saw "Logan" today. Ok, the R rating is mostly for extra splatter and dozens of F-bombs, plus the predictable surprise appearance by Deadpool----before the movie!!

As I understand it, Laura, or, if you prefer, X-23, was introduced in the books as a teenager, not a pre-teen, as she appears to be in the movie. As my bro theorized, it was likely to avoid fan shipping of Logan & Laura. Still, I could hear a certain Christopher Cross song playing in my head. If you don't know which one, facepalm yourself.

As memory serves, Donald Pierce and the Reavers were associated with Sebastian Shaw's Hellfire Club in the 80's books, and Logan himself was responsible for Pierce eventually getting cyborg parts. Now, Pierce works for Dr. Rice, and, perhaps, by extension some secret government group. Whee.

So, as an old man in 2029, James "Logan" Howlett has graduated from beer to whiskey. What a shock. Don't ya think the drunken girl in the one scene wanted his attention by flashing her breasts?

While this is Patrick Stewart's write-off as Xavier, we know James McAvoy will return in the next X-movie. Now, who gets to be the new Wolverine?

Thought the whole idea of Logan dismissing the comics that he himself has appeared in as BS might be a screw you from Fox to Marvel Studios, although some might think Laura turning the crucifix into an X at the end of the funeral service would be a symbol suggesting a future deal with Marvel Studios looms after that next X-movie......
 

Stu

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#14
I agree with the critics on this one, utterly fantastic. It would be nice if the Academy remembered this movie for Jackman and Sir Patrick's performances next year, but that would be a big ask.

Despite deeply enjoying the film, it was difficult to watch in places, with the filmmakers wisely recognising that the audience do still hold an affection for these actors and the characters, despite their inconsistent quality throughout their 17 year... Manigold really did tug at the heart strings here and go towards his characters rather than offer destruction go for the CGI destruction porn route of the original X-Men and First Class threequels.

I'm not sure anyone really wanted to see Xavier and Logan meet their demise, but at least it was in a film of true quality. The previous joy of seeing Logan reunited with his alive and well team at the conclusion of Days of Future Past (previously probably the main highlight in the X-Men franchise) may make for a somber future viewing, but yeah... this was heartbreaking.

Kudos to all involved. I can't see a Logan recasting taking place anytime soon out of good taste, and watching Patrick Stewart explain his reasons for retiring his performances on The Graham Norton recently, I must say I agree with them.

Brilliantly but so very sad. Highly recommend. Kudos to all involved
 

defunctzombie

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#15
3/7: This is a very good article about the film's CGI work, including the stunt doubles and some scenes I didn't even realize had CG over them. Major spoilers ahead.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/vfx/cg-actors-logan-never-knew-149013.html


3/9: Mangold seemingly confirms a popular fan theory about the end of Logan: (obvious spoilers)

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-me...ed-the-movies-ending-in-the-wolverine-a149526

3/16: If anyone's interested, amazon has the blu-ray already up for pre-order at 19.99 (50% off list price), and Best Buy has an exclusive steelbook up for pre-order at 21.99. (Of course bby discounted it AFTER I ordered mine, and I can't cancel and redo because I used a reward certificate. -_-)
 
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defunctzombie

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#17
Ah, code soup. XD

Yeah, the graphics all say "summer" so I guess it won't be too long. I think Apocalypse was theater in May and home October... I know I bought the digital ahead of time and then the disc later since I missed the theater (and gave the digital code that came with it to someone as a present).
 

Yojimbo

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#18
Yup, not in the mood to trouble shoot. lmao.

Yeah, the graphics all say "summer" so I guess it won't be too long. I think Apocalypse was theater in May and home October... I know I bought the digital ahead of time and then the disc later since I missed the theater (and gave the digital code that came with it to someone as a present).
Because a movie does really well it gets out sooner?
 

defunctzombie

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#19
Yup, not in the mood to trouble shoot. lmao.

Because a movie does really well it gets out sooner?
The French steelbook has a release date of July 5th, 2017 according to Amazon France, but the Indian steelbook has June 13, 2017 as well as some sweet custom artwork by what looks like Steve McNiven (who drew the original Old Man Logan TPB) according to Amazon India. So it could come out who knows when.
 

Yojimbo

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Shahdaroba
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#20
The French steelbook has a release date of July 5th, 2017 according to Amazon France, but the Indian steelbook has June 13, 2017 as well as some sweet custom artwork by what looks like Steve McNiven (who drew the original Old Man Logan TPB) according to Amazon India. So it could come out who knows when.
I'm going to guess May 16 digital and May 30 4k, Blu-Ray and DVD.
 

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