"Kamp Koral" News and Discussion Thread

TheMisterManGuy

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Nick announcing spin-offs means exactly that: they'll do SpongeBob spin-offs. You are just assuming they had some clear ideas ready, but nobody knows that.

But you don't just come to a decision like that on the spot. If they already announced multiple ones were in production, then they definately had already been presented a few pitches by that point. That's the point.

A concept can be greenlight immediately. It doesn't necessarily take a week, let alone three months. Think of Scooby-Doo and Guess Who being announced in August 2017. Be Cool Scooby-Doo wasn't over yet. They did some new pitches in early 2017 and were already recording episodes by August.

Not sure that's a good example given what you laid out. If they did some pitches in early 2017, and was fully announced in August, then they clearly had enough time to draw out a pitch for a new series. Thus proving my point, you don't just cobble together a series pitch from nothing in just 2 months, you need time to write out your vision for the show, outline characters, settings, and episode concepts to be presented. Yes, Spin-offs and franchise shows typically take less time to develop a pitch for, but not 3 months worth of development.

If you want an example of a similar case, try All Grown Up, another spin-off of a popular Nick series. The Rugrats episode of the same name was aired in July 2001, but the full series wasn't officially picked up until 2002. And considering that much like SpongeBob, Multiple Rugrats spin-offs were proposed to Nick prior to it, shows that this was a decision made a while ago.

Who says they have all of that finished already? You're just assuming things.

Nick announced the existence of multiple SpongeBob spin-offs in Febuary, if there were multiple ones in development, then they already received a few proposals for series concepts. How is that hard to understand? Networks typically hold back on announcing decisions to the public, so by the time Nick announced that Spongebob spin-offs were coming, then they already have been thinking about it since at least last year.

ToonJay723 said they erhaps didn't do a pilot. They straight went to the production phase. Things can be adjusted along the way if necessary, like with American Dragon: Jake Long, which had lots of changes during the production phase.

Even without a pilot, it still doesn't mean you can just develop a pitch for a series on the spot. Networks can request producers to develop a series, but nothing is set in stone until they see what they have in mind for the show. And according to the official announcement, Production of Kamp Coral doesn't begin until next month, if that's the case than this really was a decision in the works for a while.

Nickelodeon is officially a terrible company. I thought things would change.

Again, there really isn't much of anything to suggest this was a malicious decision. If anything its more incompetent timing on Nick's part regarding announcement.
 

ToonJay723

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Not sure that's a good example given what you laid out. If they did some pitches in early 2017, and was fully announced in August, then they clearly had enough time to draw out a pitch for a new series. Thus proving my point, you don't just cobble together a series pitch from nothing in just 2 months, you need time to write out your vision for the show, outline characters, settings, and episode concepts to be presented. Yes, Spin-offs and franchise shows typically take less time to develop a pitch for, but not 3 months worth of development.
You're not being consistent. They were accepting pitches for a new Scooby Doo show (which would become "Scooby Doo & Guess Who?" as late as April 2017 and started recording episodes in August of that year. That's four months. Hillenburg passed away at the end of November so if they started asking for pitches in December then it would have been six months at most. And again, Kamp Koral is a setting in the upcoming "It's a Wonderful Sponge", so a lot of development work was pre-prepared for them to make a rushed spin-off.
 
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Red Arrow

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To be honest, I find it quite respectful of them to wait after Hillenburg passed away. He clearly didn't want any, so they respectfully waited.

Just look at the alternative: a spin-off in the 00s against his will. (Something anime-ish, of course, it's the 00s! What about "Spongeatics: Unleashed" with SuperSponge and Patrick / MegaStar? :D Or a boring sitcom called "The SpongeBob Show"?)
 

TheMisterManGuy

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You're not being consistent. They were accepting pitches for a new Scooby Doo show (which would become "Scooby Doo & Guess Who?) as late as April 2017 and started recording episodes in August of that year. That's four months. Hillenburg passed away at the end of November so if they started asking for pitches in December then it would have been six months at most. And again, Kamp Koral is a setting in the upcoming "It's a Wonderful Sponge", so a lot of development work was pre-prepared for them to make a rushed spin-off.

That's my point, if they were already accepting pitches for the next show as late as April, then they must've already been developing pitches months before that. Meaning they had time to develop concepts for what the next show would be like.

And like I said earlier, Nickelodeon announced "Multiple" SpongeBob spin-offs were being developed, meaning that by the time February rolled around, they already had a few ideas presented to them. Assuming we use the the third movie as a base for Kamp Koral, that would've given them at least 3-4 months to develop a pitch for the show by February, meaning at the earliest, concept for the show began in October/November to develop it into a full concept, and even longer for the ideas that aren't based off a pre-existing movie. So you are correct in that it didn't take long to make a pitch for Kamp Koral considering it's "Pilot" was already well into production. But I simply think it happened months before the original announcement in February, and that other pitches for spin-offs were being produced even before that. And considering how Networks tend to sit on announcements, then Nick might've already green-light the show sometime after the original announcement was made in February.

When they announced they're were plans for SpongeBob spin-offs, they usually means they had already gotten a few pitches by that point, and were still deciding on which one will be the first to get green-lit.

Again, I'd like to use Rugrats as an example. Nickelodeon milked that cash cow dry, but even All Grown Up needed quite a while to put together a pitch for before Nick decided to order episodes for it. Nick wanted a show based on the special badly, but the crew still needed at least the remainder of 2001 to put together a vision for the show.
 

JTOONSAnimation

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I'll still see the show when it comes out, but I still don't like the idea of another show centered on Spongebob, I'm also not too keen on the CGI aspect (just a personal thing).

But I know Nickelodeon has several ideas for SpongeBob spin-offs, so whichever one they do next I hope it's not Spongebob centered (though I honestly prefer they just stick to the original series, which continues to do great on it's own)
 

Toon4Thought

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I agree that the timing for this announcement is just bad. But again, I don't buy the fact that you can just make a decision like this in such a short ammount of time. Considering it's only been 4 months since Nick first announced the existance of Spongebob spin-offs, this decision more than likely has been kicked around for a while. I find it hard to believe that this was done out of malicious intent.
He was terminally ill for I think a year prior to his death, so... there's that.
 

TheMisterManGuy

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He was terminally ill for I think a year prior to his death, so... there's that.

Even still, that doesn't deter executives from continuing with someone's creation in the form of new projects. Nick would've gone forward with this whether Hillenberg was dying or not, let's be honest.

In regards to Paul's Tweet, I also think he just thinks the concept of the show is what he thinks Steve would've hated. He's probably right, maybe Hillenberg wouldn't have been a fan of this concept. But Creators can dislike a spin-off and still have no problems with it existing. Mike Judge for example hated Daria, a spin-off of Bevis and Butt-Head, but had no problems with the show existing so long as he didn't have to touch it. I Imagine Hillenberg would've had the same thought process. He probably wouldn't have cared if SpongeBob gets a Spin-off, but he would've expressed distaste in the idea they went with if it defeats the point of the show.

I feel people are too quick to claim Nick is disrespecting his legacy when there's a whole lot more at play here.
 

Fone Bone

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To be honest, I find it quite respectful of them to wait after Hillenburg passed away. He clearly didn't want any, so they respectfully waited.
And this is the problem in a nutshell. Because he's dead, it's disrespectful. If they did it when he was alive, it would be disrespectful. And if after Hillenburg died the show was canceled and no spin-offs were coming, people would be complaining they are ditching a premise that can stretch forever with the right people in charge, and that's disrespectful to his legacy. Basically there is no way to win for Nickelodeon. People love to complain. Usually I let that idea roll off my back, but when they use the dead man's name in the service of their whiny rants, I think a little annoyance on my end is a bit justified. And when I say a little, I mean major, and when I say a bit, I mean completely.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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To be honest, I find it quite respectful of them to wait after Hillenburg passed away. He clearly didn't want any, so they respectfully waited.
Yeah, I don't buy that. Six months after his death is definitely too soon and I really think this is a stupid idea, especially that I still think SpongeBob has overstayed his welcome and that this is not a good step for Nickelodeon to bounce back after the Zarghami era.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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I wish we gotten a Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy spinoff instead

I'd argue if there were characters to spin off from Spongebob to make their own show it would be Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy especially since you can just actually have it serve as sort of a show within a show idea and quite honestly since we're still in the age of super hero saturation, Nick having it's own sort of spoof on the material could work. Though IMHO I would still have it be more serious then say Teen Titans Go or even the original Spongebob to explore the world of the heroes... of course note how I said WERE. Because even if it was more of a prequel series set with the characters in their "prime" I would still want to see at least some skits between the longer episodes of the old Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy and with the said unfortunate passings of Ernest Borgnine and Tim Conway, is now sadly impossible. There are some actors you get to replace certain cast members when the original sadly passes on but some you do have to retire and Spongebob made the right decision to retire these guys for the most part. But still it would of made a better series...

Then yeah what we know about this Kamp Koral series. Sadly it does seem that thanks to the success of all things TotalDramaRama networks seem keen on reviving that whole "young cast as babies/kids" premise that was prevlant in the 80's after the success of Muppet Babies that I thought had died for good after Baby Looney Tunes but now has come back. WIth Dramarama, the We Bare Bears cubs and yeah now this. And whether or not one can argue about how disrespectful it is to have this only come out and be made after Hillenburg's death as the original SB creator wouldn't of wanted anything to do with it, I think it can easily be argued enough how pointless an idea this is for a series. To be honest even having the premise of a prequel movie about Spongebob seems pointless since outside of an episode here and there SB isn't the kind of show that needs really any more building on where these characters or world were before and just seems like it's exploiting Spongebob's popularity. I mean at the very least the Casagrandes show is taking someone from the Loud Family series and just focusing on building a world with them away from the Louds but this like the worst sort of spinoff is just doing a variation of an already exisiting character you don't need to see another variation of but are shoving down our throats because of how popular they are. Which is not an idea I can really get behind especially since Nick does not have a good track record whatsoever of any of it's spinoff shows. All Grown up was mediocre at best; Angelica and Susie's pre school daze was such an embarassment it wasn't really even shown on the network and it's few episodes had to be burned off on Nicktoons; Planet Sheen is seen as a forgettable waste of time no one had any real interest in and heck even Legend of Korra is pretty divisive compared to Avatar. And I'm not expecting this show to break that trend as even Casagrandes as more of a justification to exist then this does.
 

wammyguide12

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And this is the problem in a nutshell. Because he's dead, it's disrespectful. If they did it when he was alive, it would be disrespectful. And if after Hillenburg died the show was canceled and no spin-offs were coming, people would be complaining they are ditching a premise that can stretch forever with the right people in charge, and that's disrespectful to his legacy. Basically there is no way to win for Nickelodeon. People love to complain. Usually I let that idea roll off my back, but when they use the dead man's name in the service of their whiny rants, I think a little annoyance on my end is a bit justified. And when I say a little, I mean major, and when I say a bit, I mean completely.
Not to get terribly off topic, but for YEARS, basically since the early 2000s, people have begged Nickelodeon to bring back their classic shows and end all their “new crap”, and over the past few years they finally have been bringing back older shows, and now one of the biggest complaints about the network is their too stuck to the past and can’t let new ideas flourish.

Also, Hillenburg hated the idea of most of the shows merchandising bonanza, particularly fast food tie ins, was reluctant to let the movie happen because he couldn’t see the show being stretched to a movie format, had even admitted the show’s conception was of frustration for the sheer amount of plots he pitched for Rocko’s Modern Life being rejected, and as the years had gone by, particularly in the Square Roots documentary released in 2009, seemed just kind of nervous and worn out about talking about the show.

And yes, he did put a lot of thought into the show, regarding the characters, setting, plots, etc, but I feel like he became almost ashamed of the show and it’s legacy because he wanted it to known as a piece of art rather than a merchandising opportunity; he seemed caught incredibly off guard by the show’s success, and not always in a good way.

Also, I could’ve sworn I saw an article from 2009-ish that said he was pitching a new pilot to Nickelodeon, and it obviously got rejected, so maybe it also became him not wanting to associated with JUST SpongeBob.

By that logic, isn’t disrespectful to his legacy that the show has any merchandise, or even the movie getting made despite how many people love it?
 

ThePharaohZ

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Not to get terribly off topic, but for YEARS, basically since the early 2000s, people have begged Nickelodeon to bring back their classic shows and end all their “new crap”, and over the past few years they finally have been bringing back older shows, and now one of the biggest complaints about the network is their too stuck to the past and can’t let new ideas flourish.

Also, Hillenburg hated the idea of most of the shows merchandising bonanza, particularly fast food tie ins, was reluctant to let the movie happen because he couldn’t see the show being stretched to a movie format, had even admitted the show’s conception was of frustration for the sheer amount of plots he pitched for Rocko’s Modern Life being rejected, and as the years had gone by, particularly in the Square Roots documentary released in 2009, seemed just kind of nervous and worn out about talking about the show.

And yes, he did put a lot of thought into the show, regarding the characters, setting, plots, etc, but I feel like he became almost ashamed of the show and it’s legacy because he wanted it to known as a piece of art rather than a merchandising opportunity; he seemed caught incredibly off guard by the show’s success, and not always in a good way.

Also, I could’ve sworn I saw an article from 2009-ish that said he was pitching a new pilot to Nickelodeon, and it obviously got rejected, so maybe it also became him not wanting to associated with JUST SpongeBob.

By that logic, isn’t disrespectful to his legacy that the show has any merchandise, or even the movie getting made despite how many people love it?

You've won the thread! This is probably the best post I've seen so far! I agree with your points. It could also be considered disrespectful to Hillenburg for the show running as long as it did because he left the show after the first movie because he wanted it to end. As you said, he hated the idea of his creation being milked for every penny. Sometimes I wonder if Mr. Krabs' greed is a reflection of Nick executives.
 

Nexonius

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I understand the frustration Paul has and I share his sentiments on the subject, but this isn't unique at all.

Looney Tunes shorts for example, had reboots that the original writers and directors were very against, or would have been against if most had lived long enough. For example, Chuck Jones and Friz Freleng were against Tiny Toons and Animaniacs. Jones hated Space Jam, and after his passing the disdained Baby Looney Tunes and Loonatics Unleashed came about. Merchandise from the 90s with characters in branded shoes, streetwear, etc were around as well.

Craig McCracken and the rebooted PPG? Wasn't too happy about that.

The point is that while it's disheartening to see Stephen's wishes not granted, we knew what was coming when Nick first announced the spinoff stuff. Yeah, he's no longer here but this is a corporation that has a extremely popular character that makes billions. Shrugs.
 

SweetShop209

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I found this old interview that Stephen Hillenburg took part in from back in 2009. It mentions how he was against the idea of SpongeBob having spinoffs. If he was still alive today, he would very clearly be against this series.
 

ThePharaohZ

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I understand the frustration Paul has and I share his sentiments on the subject, but this isn't unique at all.

Looney Tunes shorts for example, had reboots that the original writers and directors were very against, or would have been against if most had lived long enough. For example, Chuck Jones and Friz Freleng were against Tiny Toons and Animaniacs. Jones hated Space Jam, and after his passing the disdained Baby Looney Tunes and Loonatics Unleashed came about. Merchandise from the 90s with characters in branded shoes, streetwear, etc were around as well.

Craig McCracken and the rebooted PPG? Wasn't too happy about that.

The point is that while it's disheartening to see Stephen's wishes not granted, we knew what was coming when Nick first announced the spinoff stuff. Yeah, he's no longer here but this is a corporation that has a extremely popular character that makes billions. Shrugs.
Agreed. The television industry has been this way for as long as I can remember. For example, I'm sure the original writers, animators, and directors of the old Donald Duck shorts hated or would've hated Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, Quack Pack, etc. It's nothing new. If people are gonna bash Nick for this, they might as well bash the television industry all together.
 

Leviathan

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That Paul Tibbitt tweet puts so much in context.

It's become so obvious that Nickelodeon is inhospitable to creators and talent. It's all about bleeding their cash cows dry and treating their artists like hygiene products. That's why all the good new shows are going to Cartoon Network, Disney TVA and Netflix.
 

Tacomaster

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That Paul Tibbitt tweet puts so much in context.

It's become so obvious that Nickelodeon is inhospitable to creators and talent. It's all about bleeding their cash cows dry and treating their artists like hygiene products. That's why all the good new shows are going to Cartoon Network, Disney TVA and Netflix.
This.
 

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Something about places that were once former red roof Pizza Huts just fascinates me.

there's like a weird artform to it.
Here is Patchy in Swedish.

It looks like Icon Creative Studios will be animating Craig's new show. Well, they did a good job on Elena Of Avalor, so this should also be good.

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