Justice League "Wild Card" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Detective]

It's $450 with an education's discount. Probably close to $600 normally.

Last time I saw it at Office Depot it had a $750 dollar price tag.

 

[TheWonderTwits]

Well, I guess that complaining is part of the whole process. As there are people who love the show, there will be people that don't. As some episodes are enjoyed, others aren't. That's the way it is.

...true... very true... it's funny, I use to hang out at Dina Meyer's site as well as on countingdown.com... I'd swear there are folks out there that have nothing better to do than pee in other people's ponds

..guess that could be fun.. then again.. oh nevermind...

There really is no pleasing everybody. However, from what I've seen there are far more satisfied people than dissatisfied people, and I am among them. The satisfied people, I mean Twilight was awesome. I loved seeing Mercy and Lex back together (sort of) in Tabula Rasa, and Robert Picardo was a nice Amazo. Tabula Rasa was wonderfully freaky- I'd love to see a rematch. Maid of Honour was a great Wonder Woman spotlight, and it even brought back Savage and kept him a very credible threat. Hearts and Minds was a little confusing- how was Despero able to keep control of the Pytar for so long if he deviated so radically from what it originally intended for him?- but I'd like to see a rematch here also, especially if Despero's learned to keep John's ring away from his eye. Comfort and Joy- which I, being Canadian, have seen- is awesome, IM(NSH)O. I won't spoil it. It's far too good to spoil.

Again, IMHO, season 2 really proved the writers/producers took heart in what a bunch of folks were saying... the episodes seem a lot more epic now, with smarter/better villains... most importantly, better characterizations of the Magnificient Seven....

...loved the fact Lobo came back for a tad!

ooh oooh oooh... a friend a mine up there said it was a great ep!!! (gotta hunt down a torrent of it!!!)... cannot wait cannot wait!

Oh- welcome to the boards!

hey thanks!

 

[wrenchien]

there's something i use called 'the gimp' that's freeware. and you can probably download .gif support if you work with gifs. closest thing to photoshop.

anyway, hope joker does recover soon. cause there's not a lot of villians left that jl could face that haven't been destroyed in some way, the rate they're going through them.

 

[James]

Wow I missed all this bickering! - mainly because I have been waiting for a chance to see this. Now I have I'm VERY happy I did.

This was a great episode to watch. I'm surprised so many disliked it (some as much as 'Eclipsed' - eep!).

First off, I enjoyed the Hawkgirl/GL thang. Less to do with the romance, but more because we saw a mask being removed! I hope we'll see more regular mask removals in season 3. Humanising characters is an important part of empathising with them. It's nice to see JL is slowing becoming more character intensive.

The Royal Flush Gang.. I had no idea they were going to appear, so when the camera swung round to show the gang I squealed with delight. I thought it was great to see this first incarnation of the gang. Some have said they were disappointed they lacked the regal attitude of their future versions, well that comes with time. I couldn't imagine many bright regal people being duped by the Joker - it's more likely their beginning would be as a bunch of thugs. Afterall, they are very young at this stage. From here we assume they look for a personal idenity - being free of the Joker, and the style and character evolves from there. Using the Joker as their creator was obvious in hindsight - who else would have fashioned such a group. I liked the touch of having their card sleds being designed by Joker too.

And the music... ooo when the BB themed music kicked in I was a very happy nostalgic bunny. For me, again, we see more ties to Batman Beyond, which for me - being a massive believer in BB being canon, was great. For that reason alone, this episode was a great one. I liked the Joker's comment at the end of his Bat fight about all coming to an end and how reminicent that was of the final fight in ROTJ.

As for Cap's comments about Hamill - I enjoyed this more dead pan version. I must confess I thought the animation was occasionally lacking spark, but Hamill's lines and delivery were - for me - perfect. I thought they outranked ROTJ for amusement. Just the way he calls Superman 'Stupidman' had me giggling away. Wonderful. I also enjoyed his comments about the Batman's style and the rest of the JL's lack of. Joker - as usual - stole the show.

Was Batman and Superman too overbearing again? I don't really think so. I always found in the comic it always came back to those two on the whole - Batman especially. I thought his work in this episode was all very relevant. A Joker episode has to be Batman intensive - and I don't think anyone could say he swamped it. More people have been talking about GL and HG than he. Superman had some powerful scenes, and I thought Flash's scenes were very enjoyable also. Pity about the lack of Wonder Women, but we only have 40 minutes or so to play with here...

Criticisms? Well I do agree that the RFG's powers were a little humdrum and predictable. I didn't realise the VA were the TT - so I'm not sure that shows they were successful in playing other characters, or lack lustre that I didn't check who the VAs were in the credits.. you pick.

I found that some of the animation was lacking. Joker and Harley especially. Very stiff and missing some facial stimuli. Harley in particular was very flat faced.

The story fun. Yeah, the cameras were a little cheekly spun into the story (especially the high speed edit of the Flash's bomb disposal) but it's a story. If you really wanted we could have waited several minutes for the video op to locate and segment the clips together but that really would have been so little fun. In the end, it's better for the sake of the story for some liberties to be made.

Overall, I really enjoyed this and THAT's what matters. Plot holes and a little sloppy on the animation - what the hell, it was fun. I really enjoyed that 45 minutes of my life and that is the bottom line!!

 

[Viper]

Hawkgirl looks gorgeous without that hideous mask and Green Lantern looks very hunky!! and the kisss scene was great!!

I absolutely agree with you, Aquagirl! Hawkgirl does look gorgeous w/o the mask.

BTW, I never got to say this, but considering you're still new here, welcome to TZ Aquagirl! I love your avatar, looks very nice.

--Erik Zmajkovic aka Viper

 

[DisneyBoy]

We got our first airing of Wilds Cards here on Monday night, so here are my thoughts.

Yah...that's a boring way to start a post, but I'm tired and couldn't think of anything better.

Nice lead-in to the episode, with Batman urgently warning that dude to cancel the feed. Nice animation there too. They both actually looked worried about what was going to happen. And then the Joker pops up, and I find myself slightly underwhelmed by the animation. He looks so flat, it's incredible, given that they've been animating him for a decade now. I just rewatched "Injustice for All Part Two" a day ago, and he looked better there than he does here.

Thankfully though, that's when the creative angle of the story kicked in. The countdown clock. The 'red carpet' jokes. Harley in the copter. None of these things were very funny on their own, but when sequenced one after the other, they amused me quite a bit.

And then the Flush Gang showed up. I don't mean to make them sound like they were such a let-down, but compared to what little I've seen of the Gang in BB, these guys seriously need some continuity between their outfits. And of course, they all have super-powers. Because to be a threat to the League, you simply MUST have super-powers. Right?

I disagree. Riddler could easily drive these folks batty, and I was really expecting more from the Joker than narration in this ep. I really wanted the writers to have made full use of his twisted mind to challenge the Leaguers on more than just a physical level. I'm not talking about a ROTJ kinda challenge, but more of a "How can you stop me now that I've put sequence X into motion, MUAHAHAHAHA!!??!?" Something that makes them scratch their heads and say, "Only the Joker could have come up with something so warped and impossible". Instead we get the junior X-Men zipping around.

And ten as the Elongated Man? Total waste. Especially considering that

Spoiler

the Elongated Man is now scheduled to appear in Season Three or Four

. The super strong guy who can't feel pain? Boring and unoriginal. The girl who can control metal? Yah sure....I'll bet they were all born with these amazing powers.

I think they if they really wanted the teens to have these powers, they should have placed the blame of their captive childhoods on the shoulders of Lex Luthor. Now that he's been out breaking the law in the open, why not have it be revealed that he kidnapped these kids in the hopes that they could be turned into his own personal Anti-Superman squad or something. Even that would have been more interesting that the "military/government" origin.

Anyways, by the time the RFG started knocking heads around, I had lost interest. I need to feel like something's at stake with these fights. I never did like watching WWF, and my mind hasn't changed just because it's animated.

As for Hawkgirl and GL? More on that next week.

And I did miss Joker's laugh. Without it, he didn't sound like he was having much fun.

 

[Knight]

We got our first airing of Wilds Cards here on Monday night, so here are my thoughts.

Yah...that's a boring way to start a post, but I'm tired and couldn't think of anything better.

Nice lead-in to the episode, with Batman urgently warning that dude to cancel the feed. Nice animation there too. They both actually looked worried about what was going to happen. And then the Joker pops up, and I find myself slightly underwhelmed by the animation. He looks so flat, it's incredible, given that they've been animating him for a decade now. I just rewatched "Injustice for All Part Two" a day ago, and he looked better there than he does here.

Thankfully though, that's when the creative angle of the story kicked in. The countdown clock. The 'red carpet' jokes. Harley in the copter. None of these things were very funny on their own, but when sequenced one after the other, they amused me quite a bit.

And then the Flush Gang showed up. I don't mean to make them sound like they were such a let-down, but compared to what little I've seen of the Gang in BB, these guys seriously need some continuity between their outfits. And of course, they all have super-powers. Because to be a threat to the League, you simply MUST have super-powers. Right?

I disagree. Riddler could easily drive these folks batty, and I was really expecting more from the Joker than narration in this ep. I really wanted the writers to have made full use of his twisted mind to challenge the Leaguers on more than just a physical level. I'm not talking about a ROTJ kinda challenge, but more of a "How can you stop me now that I've put sequence X into motion, MUAHAHAHAHA!!??!?" Something that makes them scratch their heads and say, "Only the Joker could have come up with something so warped and impossible". Instead we get the junior X-Men zipping around.

Have you seen both parts? I thought the Jokers plan was brilliant.

And ten as the Elongated Man? Total waste. Especially considering that

Spoiler

the Elongated Man is now scheduled to appear in Season Three or Four

.
The super strong guy who can't feel pain? Boring and unoriginal. The girl who can control metal? Yah sure....I'll bet they were all born with these amazing powers.

I think they if they really wanted the teens to have these powers, they should have placed the blame of their captive childhoods on the shoulders of Lex Luthor. Now that he's been out breaking the law in the open, why not have it be revealed that he kidnapped these kids in the hopes that they could be turned into his own personal Anti-Superman squad or something. Even that would have been more interesting that the "military/government" origin.

Why does Luthor have to be responsible for everything? I think the military angle worked fine in my opinion. As far as the RFG goes there aren't many truly original characters created today that cant be linked to a already existing character. Just because a character can stretch doesn't make them the Elongated Man. Would it be a waste to have another character show up with wings like Hawkgirl? There are multiple characters out there and some have similar abilities. The only thing that really separates someone like Captain Marvel from a guy like Superman in terms of powers is something like heat vision.

 

[Fone Bone]

I loved this episode. The Joker was great. Favorite bit: When Flash raced out of the building with the bomb and the Joker rewatched the tape in slow-mo. His reaction was priceless: Mildly interested look: "Huh."

Nice continuity with Harley's warped relationship with Mistah J spelled out by Batman when he reminded her what happened in Mad Love. I agreed with the Joker when she slugged Bats: "Didn't see that one comin'!"

It was so funny hearing the Teen Titans voice the Royal Flush Gang. Scott Menville and Greg Cipes' voices didn't fit the characters at all but it was still fun. I was a little unsure of how this RFG fits into the Batman Beyond universe. Hopefully if they return a more definate link will be established.

I love the 24-ish clock. Anyone who says Justice League never tries anything new is wrong.

God, Shayera is so beautiful. Has there ever been a lovelier woman in the DCAU? I think not. Her and Green Lantern's kiss make me impatient for Starcrossed. Hopefully soon, and I plan on staying away from spoilers.

This was a wonderful episode. *****1/2.

 

[Salvor]

I love the 24-ish clock. Anyone who says Justice League never tries anything new is wrong.

So... JL uses a 24 concept and you call that "something new"

Anyway I completely agree with DB... "losing interest" seems to happen to me a lot when I watch JL...

 

[Doomsday]

This is a good episode but it takes to long for the episode to go somewhere. What makes this episode as good as it is, is the Joker. He's a genius. He always makes an episodes better than it would be without him. And the end of the first episode was awesome, a funny joke from the Joker then GL pushing HG away from the explosion. But that scene and the scene with Joker kicking Batman, Joker laughing would make them much better. I hope we see Joker again in season 3.

 

[Nick K.]

So... JL uses a 24 concept and you call that "something new"

Anyway I completely agree with DB... "losing interest" seems to happen to me a lot when I watch JL...

24 didn't use that concept before Julia Louis Dreyfus' show "Watching Ellie." And, I'm sure it's been done before that. Nothing is original anymore, but in Cartoon land, or DCAU land, it was different.

 

[b.t.]

24 didn't use that concept before Julia Louis Dreyfus' show "Watching Ellie." And, I'm sure it's been done before that. Nothing is original anymore, but in Cartoon land, or DCAU land, it was different.

i'm sure no one will believe me, but i've wanted to do a "real-time" countdown story for YEARS...i was, in fact, inspired by an old episode of M*A*S*H*, of all things (can't even remember what its plot was about at this late date, just thought it was a nifty gimmick)...we toyed with doing a "real-time" ep of b:tas back in the day, but nothing ever came of it....

 

[Phantasm]

hawkgirl isn't all that great looking!andrea still beats her and remains at the top spot as the most beautifully drawn WB character ever!

 

[Simpler Simon]

i'm sure no one will believe me, but i've wanted to do a "real-time" countdown story for YEARS...i was, in fact, inspired by an old episode of M*A*S*H*, of all things (can't even remember what its plot was about at this late date, just thought it was a nifty gimmick)...we toyed with doing a "real-time" ep of b:tas back in the day, but nothing ever came of it....

Oh wow I love that episode of MASH - I don't remember the specifics either, except that if they didn't give the guy some kind of transplant within 22 minutes, he'd be paralyzed - which led to this dramatic scene where the priest and BJ are waiting for a boy to die so they can use his organs, and the boy's buddy is horrified at how ghoulish they are.

But about Wild Cards itself - I think this is definitely one of those episodes that's stronger once you've seen both parts. Part one's fun, but you don't really believe the RFG could be capable of posing a threat to the JL. The GL/Hawkgirl bits were great though, especially the teaser

b.t, normally I wouldn't specifically ask you about an episode like a rabid fanboy , but I'm interested in how a "real-time" episode would be storyboarded. I can only imagine how difficult it'd be to make sure everything was in continuity time-wise.

Oh, and I like the trick of making at least the first few shots of the JL all camera angles, like Joker would see on his monitors. It really enhanced the "reality-show" aspect of the episode a lot.

 

[maxnugget]

I thought the countdown was very cool, but it annoyed me because of its placement. It was too far toward the center of the screen, I presume because they had to place it where it would be visible in the non-widescreen airing.

I love the opening segment with Batman in the CEO's office...that was a very enjoyable segment although I'm not sure why specifically I like it so much. I think what was cool was, first, how you see Batman doing some JL-independent detective work, but I think what really made the scene work was that once Batman told the CEO that he had sold air time to The Joker, the CEO (rather than acting all business-like and snobbish) was seriously concerned and really made a 110% effort to cut the feed, and looked like he was concerned not just in the typical business sense but also in the "God knows what this madman will do, innocent people could be killed" sense. This really helps give the Joker some added weight and underscore that he is a deadly foe, not just a party clown. It's easy to get caught up in Joker's comedy-motif so seeing how lightheardedly he acts contrasted with how gravely serious others are about him helps make clear how dangerous he is.

The part at the end where the Joker's TRUE plan was revealed lacked full punch, though, because even though the broadcast was being seen nationwide, the only people we see being held captive by it are people IN Las Vegas, and so you had to really use your imagination to register that this was a nation-wide threat.

Also, either the sound effect for Joker slapping Harley or her falling down after being slapped (I forget which one) lacked a sufficiently hard-hitting THUD.

 

[b.t.]

b.t, normally I wouldn't specifically ask you about an episode like a rabid fanboy , but I'm interested in how a "real-time" episode would be storyboarded. I can only imagine how difficult it'd be to make sure everything was in continuity time-wise.

Oh, and I like the trick of making at least the first few shots of the JL all camera angles, like Joker would see on his monitors. It really enhanced the "reality-show" aspect of the episode a lot.

it was VERY tricky to storyboard....we originally wanted to "play fair" and have ALL the camera angles in joker's telecast be from actual live "on site" cameras (like those first few shots that you mentioned) but it was just too limiting, we needed more "coverage" (variety of camera angles) just to keep the thing moving; we had to start "cheating" the angles pretty quick, and tried to cover it with joker's line about setting up "hundreds of cameras all over vegas", and showing the occasional cameraman "accidentally" being seen in someone else's viewfinder....

yes, boarding it was difficult, and editing it was a NIGHTMARE...just getting joker's down-in-the-corner readout to synch-up with the "in scene" clocks turned out to be way trickier than we thought it would be (we had to call a whole lot of very precise re-takes just for that)...we realized AFTER the ep had been tele-cine'd (i.e. completed) that we'd made a logical error: after the first "fake" bomb blows up, joker's corner countdown was still visible, which prematurely tipped off the audience that there were more bombs...d'oh!...so, we had to go back in, remove the countdown for a few scenes, started it back up when joker says, "there ARE 25 bombs".... also, i hated to do it, but we had to technically break the "real-time" rule during the cliff-hanger, since gl's bomb blows up twice, once at the end of part one, once at the beginning of part two....we actually had to GO BACK in time a few seconds to see the bomb go off from batman's vantage point (fortunately, no one seemed to notice this slight discrepancy)....

also, the animation, for whatever reason, was somewhat soft when we first got it back, the timing was off, etc....the whole thing just kinda LAY there....we probably spent more man-hours in the editing bay on that particular show than any other JL episode...it seemed like practically every single shot needed some kind of trim or "speed-up" or "slow-down" or re-take...also, we felt ace's final psychedelic assault on batman just wasn't weird and unsettling enough, and since we don't have access to after-effects, we just messed around with it on the avid...after some experimentation, we ended up double-exposing a clone of each scene over the original, slightly out-of synch (off by 4 frames, if i remember right), which created a nice jittery strobing "after-image"....pretty effective, i thought...

even the sound mix was tricky...normally, when someone's talking in voice-over on the jl com-links, we put a radio filter "futz" on it, to approximate how the chatter would sound from the receiver's p.o.v....as we were mixing, i realized that since the show was "live", any comlink chatter would have to be picked up from the imaginary "mic" on the person speaking....in other words, joker's film crew wouldn't be picking up "p.o.v."- sounding audio....so, we had to remove the radio futz...there were lots of little things like that all throughout the making of that ep, that just drove us crazy....

ultimately, once it was all put together, with music and sound, i think it turned out very nice, genuinely creepy in places (and i was VERY pleased with how the watchtower scene at the end turned out) ...but, yeah, it was a tough one...

 

[lostrune]

hawkgirl isn't all that great looking!andrea still beats her and remains at the top spot as the most beautifully drawn WB character ever!

Heh, I just like it when even the bad girls are drawn in an "enticing" manner, like in this episode.

 

[Joker1238]

Good news, Boomerang is aring Wild Card tomorrow on the 4th.

YEAH, this will be the 2nd time in its history it will be aired lol.

 

[Wonderwall]

I loved this episode, I just thought it was straight out fun. And my fav characters in the DC universe got the best moments and screen time( Batman and Joker ) and the clock in the corner was a cool trick( And I noticed that cheat at the start of part 2 ). One of my fav highlights from season 2. Only 17 days til I see this again in a nice image.

 

[Jazzie]

This was one of my favorite episodes. Was this the last JL/JLU Joker appearance? Also you see Ace and you know what part Batman plays in her situation and also you see Batman's insight in GL-HG's relationship.