"Justice League vs. The Fatal Five" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

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-batmat-

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Nov 10, 2010
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Here's the Watchtower Database Easter Egg round-up video. Surprisingly, there were a lot of them. A lot of them were mentioned in this thread already, but I think we found a decent amount that haven't been.

Picking up background characters from previous series and episodes? You guys are completely insane... kudos!
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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I am hoping the movie is successful I do want to see more of the "Timm" style. My only wants is that they tone down the profanity...they don't have to be be "kiddY' cartoons/animation but "ALL AGES" the way the prior Timm/Dini/etc. all universe was written.

The profanity does not make it any more serious. Just use great storytelling the way they have been

The creative team can ramp up the action/animation etc., but profanity and blood just for the sake of it, does not make the films better.
Here is something I want Bruce Timm to take into consideration for any future potential DCAU project: There have been many people complaining about the blood and swearing, but not a single person in the entire thread believes the project was better or cooler for it. I hope that tells him something.
 

Spider-Man

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I like that the movie carries on that unofficial tradition of reusing background characters across different eras and even different continuities between different shows. Like how a background character from a DCAU show would show up in Brave and the Bold or Teen Titans or Legion. I'm surprised that some people may not have noticed this yet. I always got a laugh when I saw the same background models used. I remember people would come up with funny theories on the old boards like for example when a background character from Superman or Batman would appear in Batman Beyond.
 

jtstrecker

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Nov 22, 2015
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Here is something I want Bruce Timm to take into consideration for any future potential DCAU project: There have been many people complaining about the blood and swearing, but not a single person in the entire thread believes the project was better or cooler for it. I hope that tells him something.
I agree it doesn't make the movie better or cooler, but I don't think it detracts from it, either. I don't really have a problem with it. B&HQ and JLvsF5 are both movies that are likely aimed at, well, us. People who grew up with and/or religiously watched the DCAU in its heyday and now are much older. We've grown up, so has the DCAU. People swear, shrug emoji.

I like that the movie carries on that unofficial tradition of reusing background characters across different eras and even different continuities between different shows. Like how a background character from a DCAU show would show up in Brave and the Bold or Teen Titans or Legion. I'm surprised that some people may not have noticed this yet. I always got a laugh when I saw the same background models used. I remember people would come up with funny theories on the old boards like for example when a background character from Superman or Batman would appear in Batman Beyond.
The World's Finest - Justice League ;)
 
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Batboy84

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I agree it doesn't make the movie better or cooler, but I don't think it detracts from it, either. I don't really have a problem with it. B&HQ and JLvsF5 are both movies that are likely aimed at, well, us. People who grew up with and/or religiously watched the DCAU in its heyday and now are much older. We've grown up, so has the DCAU. People swear, shrug emoji.
The DCAU was already pretty grown up to begin with though. I'm also of the camp that believes profanity conveys immaturity more than actual maturity. If Young Justice can make itself more mature without crossing that line, why can't something like this?
 

#TeamMike

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I agree it doesn't make the movie better or cooler, but I don't think it detracts from it, either. I don't really have a problem with it. B&HQ and JLvsF5 are both movies that are likely aimed at, well, us. People who grew up with and/or religiously watched the DCAU in its heyday and now are much older. We've grown up, so has the DCAU. People swear, shrug emoji.
One of the best parts about the old DCAU is how it could be enjoyed by people of all ages, while (usually) not dumbing things down.

My problem with a lot of the DC animated films as of late, is that the PG-13 language comes off as juvenile, and they're doing it just because they can.

Especially if you're using something like the old JL designs, which always aimed for kids/all ages, it's some serious cognitive dissonance. Even Eric Carracso (the writer for JL vs Fatal Five) mentioned that in the commentary.

Back in the B:TAS days, censorship actually benefited the show because the creators had to think outside of the box (e.g. Barbara's death in Over the Edge). If that Batman and Harley Quinn film is any indication of how B:TAS might have been like without censorship, then thank god for the censors.
 
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Yojimbo

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Throwing this out there. After some month and change have passed since I watched it, I haven't exactly memorized how much someone like Cruz swore, it did occur to me that it fits the character. She's this young, 20-something year old millenial-doesn't know jack about the world person. Would she swear a lot? Sure. She's not a billionaire who lost her parents at a young age and traveled the world to hone every possible skill, wasn't a baby alien adopted by a kind couple and discovered superpowers later in life, wasn't raised on a hidden island to be a warrior, didn't serve in the military, and so on. Cruz is probably one of the closest approximations to some random like us taken off the streets of a city and given a super power though granted, she was had that grizzly incident in her past but she unlike the Leaguers, she never figured out how to self-actualize it until the final parts of the movie.
 
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Frontier

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Throwing this out there. After some month and change have passed since I watched it, I haven't exactly memorized how much someone like Cruz swore, it did occur to me that it fits the character. She's this young, 20-something year old millenial-doesn't know jack about the world person. Would she swear a lot? Sure. She's not a billionaire who lost her parents at a young age and traveled the world to hone every possible skill, wasn't a baby alien adopted by a kind couple and discovered superpowers later in life, wasn't raised on a hidden island to be a warrior, didn't serve in the military, and so on. Cruz is probably one of the closest approximations to some random like us taken off the streets of a city and given a super power though granted, she was had that grizzly incident in her past but she unlike the Leaguers, she never figured out how to self-actualize it until the final parts of the movie.
I think she swore about as much as the average person does, coupled with her obvious attitude issues because of the difficulty of her trauma.

I mean, it's not like we had the Trinity dropping curse words left and right :sweat:.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
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Mostly, profanity is emblematic of a lazy writer.
Depends on the context or the franchise I think. A lot of times people write profanity for the characters because no other word would do for a realistic scenario. But DCAU cartoons are not the franchise that needs to be worried about realistic dialogue and they never were. I felt all of the swears in this movie and Batman and Harley Quinn were gratuitous.
 

the_joker

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I agree that the swearing in this movie sounded awkward and unnatural, and the line with Hawkgirl's mace was stood out the most in that regard. The DC cartoons all worked well without swearing, but I will admit that the swearing in the Marvel movies don't sound awkward. I wonder how they were able to pull it off.

However, I'm not against blood or explicit death since that can allow the writers to be more honest about the fate of certain characters.
 
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animagic1

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The profanity comes off as awkward because it all seems added just to shock. It doesn't add any real value.

All ages does not mean dumbed down or using high pitched voices and avoid death or violence. Look at a good percentage of the Disney features up to Tarzan. There has been some explicit deaths in those films. Take away the songs, and you have a solid film(s).

Also, while you can have violence, that does not equate to having me emotionally vested. Which really should be the case if you want work that endures over time.

The episodes of Justice League and Justice League Unlimited were excellent in their handling of Solomon Grundy's death(s) I was into it and there was no blood shown, but we all knew what happened when Solomon was inquiring about his soul and the seen where Shayera was going to put "her friend" to rest.

The same can be said of The New Batman Adventures episode "Growing Pains". The writing worked because it did not exist as shock, but meaning.

If the creatives want to do profanity, nudity, excessive violence and shock, it would be bettter to do it with the alternative universe such as the New 52 Universe and Gods and Monsters Universe. Create something new. Let the characters as created, exist for all ages, so that they can have the same experience as the more seasoned crowd. Don't destroy it for them. Move on to something else and/or continue to nuture the work
that existed prior.
 
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Frontier

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To me, with as much as the DCAU skirted the line on explicit content, it doesn't bother me as much to see them kind of go full-blown with the violence and profanity to some degree.

If this was still supposed to be marketed as an all-ages property (which, this film being in the line it is, it wasn't) I would've had more problems with it.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
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I agree it doesn't make the movie better or cooler, but I don't think it detracts from it, either. I don't really have a problem with it. B&HQ and JLvsF5 are both movies that are likely aimed at, well, us. People who grew up with and/or religiously watched the DCAU in its heyday and now are much older. We've grown up, so has the DCAU. People swear, shrug emoji.
I wasn't sure how to respond to this so I didn't. But I got my crap together. Here goes.

The problem isn't that we grew up with the DCAU and it grew up too. The problem is that the current DCAU is making it so fans who grew up with it can't share the new stuff with their kids. The entire selling point of the franchise was that is appealed to and was appropriate for everyone. It's not fair to parents who loved this franchise to be unable to share it with their kids.
 

iammattie

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I wasn't sure how to respond to this so I didn't. But I got my crap together. Here goes.

The problem isn't that we grew up with the DCAU and it grew up too. The problem is that the current DCAU is making it so fans who grew up with it can't share the new stuff with their kids. The entire selling point of the franchise was that is appealed to and was appropriate for everyone. It's not fair to parents who loved this franchise to be unable to share it with their kids.

I think tha all comes down to personal preference as far as parenting techniques go. For instance, my mom was okay with me watching BTAS and STAS, but once my parents split my dad was a lot stricter and that's part of why I didnt get around to finishing up JL/JLU til I was older. Or why I had to be sneaky about watching Yu-Gi-Oh, X-Men, Pokemon, etc.

Currently, I dont have a kid, but in the lens with which I view the world now, I dont think I would actively feel the need to keep a hypothetical future child of mine away from this film. Batman and Harley Quinn.... maybe not until they're a teenager, but JLvF5 seems fine. Is the worry here that they'll attempt to emulate the behavior seen on screen? Because if that's the case, it would seem like there would need to be hesitance in showing them any action oriented show at all in case they may want to emulate the violence, which in my opinion is worse behavior when played out in the real world than the couple of swear words.

That's all just my opinion though, hopefully it doesnt come off as me saying anyone is wrong in their parenting techniques, because at the end of the day, what you think is okay for your kid is totally up to your personal preference. I think at the end of the day though, there are still so many options for media that can be shared as a family that it's not necessary for everything else to be family friendly. Think the X-Men films for instance since I mentioned the franchise earlier, its gonna be easier to share some of the films than others (Deadpool/Logan) but I dont think I've ever heard this criticism levied against that franchise.
 

animagic1

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Mar 19, 2009
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Just to be clear -
I am for all forms of expression...and I want to see that reflected within animation.

I am against when the characters I knew that existed in the "original" DCAU are presented as different from the characters they originally were. And that is not in regards of growth, or getting a better handle on the characters The essence of Batman from the 92/93 series is that same as the Batman from the 97/98 series. Yes, the charater was streamlines, yes the action was ramped up, yes, he spoke less, but it was stil the same character/Batman.

I am not against characters that are presented as an alternate such as "Crisis on Two Earths", "Gods and Monsters" or and of the other alternate choices. I have bought and enjoyed those films.

The difference is that Justice League vs. The Fatal Five was presented to be in the original DCAU, thus my problems with the profanity.

The creative works that were presented in the original DCAU was done brilliantly. It was all ages. Not kiddified.

To be honest, the films that are supposed to be more "adult" come off as childish, because there is lacking of depth and more shock. I am not against doing things differently, but it should not be at the detriment to the already existing universe established.
 
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