Justice League Unlimited "Wake the Dead" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Grimlock]

hope you're loaded, 'cuz she DID kill him. killed him good. grundy ain't comin' back. ever.

no, really, i mean it! this time, he's staying dead. as a doornail. this is an ex-zombie.

Haha, i believe you told us he was really dead last time as well, b.t.

It's nice though, gives us a bit of the comic book feeling, people coming back from the dead and whatnot.

Tell you what, when JLU is all said and done for (which i hope never happens, you could go another 5 season at LEAST, right? ), THEN i'll pay out, because i still think he's coming back .

 

[Red]

hope you're loaded, 'cuz she DID kill him. killed him good. grundy ain't comin' back. ever.

no, really, i mean it! this time, he's staying dead. as a doornail. this is an ex-zombie.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Well he should...as long as Mark H. is by his side [No offense to you Timm, we just need a talking Zombie ]

 

[ryeck]

Really well done. I thought that "Wake the Dead" ranks right up there with "The Return" and FTMWHE as my top JLU episodes. I wasn't bothered by the fact that the college kids inadvertantly woke up Grundy with their "magic", as they admited they didn't really know what they were doing.
Other points:
*Superman was again used well, even though he took quite the beating from Grundy.
*Always good to see Dr. Fate. I have enjoyed Fate's appearances since STAS, and he is a character I want to read up on.
*Shayera is still gorgeous (hey, I'm partial to redheads). I felt for her and her confusion over her purpose in life, I think many of us can relate to at one time or another.
*Glad to see Clark was for her staying with the League, and GL abstained.
*Vixen was alright, but one shot of her showed an awful lot of cleavage (not that I'm complaining, but kids are watching this as well).
*Glad that Amazo teleported itself light years away. It's too convienent to solve every possible problem with it around, and I don't really want to see Amazo come back any time soon.
*NO BATMAN! It always good when he isn't involved. The guy gets way too much air time for my tastes.

A nice break change of pace from the last two episodes, though the story could have been expanded on more with more time, but such is life in a 30 minute format.

5 stars out of 5.

 

[Crimson]

I liked this episode; it's nice to be able to say that about this season for a change. Whether or not I loved the episode will be determined by subsequent viewings.

My biggest complaint is that this episode's priorities seemed out-of-whack. Too much time was squandered on things unnecessary, while more important matters were underplayed or all but ignored. The action scenes were necessary; this is an action show, after all. But other scenes, particularly those with AMAZO, were irrelevant. His presence served no real purpose, and a convoluted explanation was required to justify is ineffectiveness against Grundy. Would have been much easier to have just not used him in the episode, which could have freed up precious time for more important matters.

Vixen now ranks as only the 3rd character introduced by this new format that I found interesting (the others being Captain Atom and Green Arrow.) I liked the portrayal of her powers, and I liked her personality -- a heady blend of brash, brave and foolhardy.

 

[GWOtaku]

Didn't know this was on tonight, thought that Bionicle thing knocked it off the schedule. JLU episodes reair at somepoint, right? When is that?

 

[b.t.]

Haha, i believe you told us he was really dead last time as well, b.t.


Tell you what, when JLU is all said and done for (which i hope never happens, you could go another 5 season at LEAST, right? ), THEN i'll pay out, because i still think he's coming back .

well, that sounds fair (start saving up, though...i'm just sayin'). yeah, we normally like to keep our dead guys dead, and really really REALLY had no intention of ever bringing "grondy" (personally, i LOVE how oded pronounces his name!) back from the grave. we did it this one time because (a) we thought it would be a kickass way to end shayera's exile, and (b) it brings him back in a way that doesn't in any way render his death in "terror beyond" meaningless.

i can't see any good reason to ever bring him back again, so seriously, THIS dirt-nap's stickin'.

also (and this goes to maxie as well), if you're thinking we (AND shayera) are pulling a fake-out, that she DIDN'T kill him for some reason, the staging, the music, her facial expression, EVERYTHING says otherwise. and why WOULDN'T she kill him, anyway? not only is he extremely dangerous in his current incarnation, but he's also suffering. clearly, killin's the best thing for him.

 

[pidget bill]

OMG w000000T teh RAWK HAWK Gr1L ti$ Bakk!!11!. Ok, seriously. a great episode. Fights were all good, well animated. Grundy was simply badass if not a bit Overpowered eh? It's nice having Hawkgirl back. Wonder how things will turn out with her now in future episodes. Vixen seemed like a cool character with some intresting powers. And Seems Dr. Fate has nice lil group of his own doesn't he?

Now Amazo. Well, looks like he suffered from the "Mewtwo Returns" syndrome. Take originally God-like character (Mewtwo) and weaken him severely . I know it was the only way to get him out of the picture so Hawkgirl gets her spotlight, but they could of pulled it off a little better IMO.

Good continunuity with Starcrossed (I just knew she would've got voted to stay). Now with the conclusion with Grundy, well since we didn't actually see what Hawkgirl did down there, I wonder if we'll get a return appearence. aww hell I know we probably will. You just can't ever seem keep a Zombie down.

A lil rushed, but it still kept my intrest. 5 stars

 

[Storm]

For the past two week I missed JLU so I was surprised I was able to catch it and I liked what I say. I don't think I would have enjoyed this episode (which was very awesome by the way) as much if it wasn't for Vixen, who has now been donned one of my favorite superheroines. I was so proud to see a black female character kick some ass. To be frank the only black superheroine who've made a major impact on television and comics is Ororo Munroe a.k.a. Storm so to see Vixen portrayed w/ confidence and with such a brash and wonderful personality was great. Her introduction and presence was refreshing to see. Great job on that Mr. Timm.

It was great to see Hawkgirl again however I'm happy to see John moving on with the ever-so sassy Vixen. Sorry Fone Bone.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've notice there are a few characters being portrayed by former Jossverse actors. Firefly's Gina Torres (Zoe) did an excellent job as Vixen and next season Amy Acker (Fred/Illyria) will be voicing Huntress along side with Morena Baccarin (Inara) as Black Canary. Any more Jossverse actors portraying some of our favorite heroes? James Marsters would rock!

Great episode. Starting a Vixen web fanlisting right now, lol.


- Fray

 

[Maxie Zeus]

also (and this goes to maxie as well), if you're thinking we (AND shayera) are pulling a fake-out, that she DIDN'T kill him for some reason, the staging, the music, her facial expression, EVERYTHING says otherwise. and why WOULDN'T she kill him, anyway? not only is he extremely dangerous in his current incarnation, but he's also suffering. clearly, killin's the best thing for him.

All that makes sense, and yeah, the scene of her standing over him was very powerfully done, and it absolutely suggested it was all going to be over for Grundy. It was her subsequent line, that it was all over or that he wasn't coming back, or whatever she said, that took me aback. Given how emotional she was supposed to be about it, I would have expected a rawer, more volcanic reaction to the question: "Yeah, I splattered his brains all over the sewer. What do you want me to say?!" Her actual answer, by comparison, sounded a bit like a dodge, and that's what set me wondering.

Also, like Grimlock, I'm occasionally cynical about these kind of things.

But I'm glad I didn't offer to cover part of Grimlock's expenses ...

 

[Doomsday]

I never get tired of seeing this episode. Saw it when it aired on YTV. Thanks bt for clearing that Hawkgirl DID kill Grundy, I been wondering that myself. I'll try to get the main things out of this episode on how most of it been said already. Intro was the weakest part but cool how those kids died. The new beginning is nice, Flash IS there and nice Hawkgirl picture. I'll miss the custom intros but it makes sense why they have so stop doing it. Vixen is a cool character, just like 50 more characters left to learn about. The flying cop car for some reason seamed funny to me. Fights were much better than any of episode, maybe not FTMWHE. Superman make his best enterence EVER. Cool intro for Aquaman too. AMAZO had a nice roll in the episode without taking the spotlight. Nice seeing Dr. Fate and the others again. I really am missing the Flash but I can't blame the episode for that, just the season. Nice seeing GL getting worried about Hawkgirl, and GL did forgive Hawkgirl by the end of Starcrossed, not in this episode. He loves her, no kidding he be acting like he did. Nice ending with them walking to the sun. Also great some bt with the grunts and the whole episode itself. I'm surpise that people rates low are rating high, like Dr Flask, and people who gives out 5 on even the bad episodes gives this a 3.5, Phantasm but I guess that because Batman is not in the episode which is a weak reason to vote that way but whatever. A brilliant episode and I hope the last two this season will be just as good, if possible better. *****.

 

[Rebis]

i can't see any good reason to ever bring him back again, so seriously, THIS dirt-nap's stickin'.

Aw, that's too bad. I'd love to hear the wonderful voice actor who played Grundy deliver some more unearthly snarling and howling. He sent chills down my spine.

Seriously, for me, tonight's episode was the ultimate distillation of Solomon Grundy's character ... ever. In any medium. Brother's unbeatable. Mindless. Filled with misery and menace. And maybe it was the gin, but I was standing on my sofa hooping and hollering throughout the battle. Felt like Saturday morning.

And Vixen. Dayum. Let's see some more of her. Excellent look. Phenomenal powers. Sharp dialogue. And some more color on the team. Make it a double.

 

[EJill34]

the teaser END-titles are staying, though, as per cn's request.

That's actually kind of ironic considering they didn't even air the end-title teasers until "Greatest Story Never Told" and those were for "FTMWHE," "Hawk and Dove," and "Fearful Symmetry" which had all been aired by that time. Whatever...I'll never understand CN.

Speaking of teasers, the ones for this episode were just awesome. I don't think I can wait a whole month for "Once and Future Thing."

 

[b.t.]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've notice there are a few characters being portrayed by former Jossverse actors. Firefly's Gina Torres (Zoe) did an excellent job as Vixen and next season Amy Acker (Fred/Illyria) will be voicing Huntress along side with Morena Baccarin (Inara) as Black Canary. Any more Jossverse actors portraying some of our favorite heroes? James Marsters would rock!

see the "jlu rumor thread, part 4" for casting info...as for james marsters, we tried several times this past season to get him on JLU, came REAL close once, but his ANGEL shooting schedule kept getting in the way....maybe next season....

 

[Storm]

see the "season 4 rumor" thread for casting info...as for james marsters, we tried several times this past season to get him on JLU, came REAL close once, but his ANGEL shooting schedule kept getting in the way....maybe next season....

Darn it! Atleast you guys tried. I have a few more suggestion: Sarah Michelle Gellar (I doubt it w/ her schedule but she's done animation before), who was my original pick as Black Canary's voice, Emma Caulfield, and Nicholas Brendon. A fan can dream can't he?

:checks S4 Rumor thread now:


- Fray

 

[DLM]

This is my favorite JLU episode.
Five stars.

Nuff said.

 

[Grimlock]

well, that sounds fair (start saving up, though...i'm just sayin'). yeah, we normally like to keep our dead guys dead, and really really REALLY had no intention of ever bringing "grondy" (personally, i LOVE how oded pronounces his name!) back from the grave.

Yeah, i could have SWORN he said "grondy", and i was thinking, "that's weird," but fate does have that slight accent in JLU which i never knew had from the comics.

we did it this one time because (a) we thought it would be a kickass way to end shayera's exile, and (b) it brings him back in a way that doesn't in any way render his death in "terror beyond" meaningless.

It was a very appropriate way to bring shayera back, seeing as she played a huge role in the episode of his death.

But i have to say, bringing him back by a bunch of kids playing around with magic...i felt that cheapened his death a little bit. But hey, there's a reason you guys are calling the shots and i'm not.

i can't see any good reason to ever bring him back again, so seriously, THIS dirt-nap's stickin'.

Alright, then perhaps i'll take your word for it, but if you bring him back, you're going to get a huge "i told you so" .

also (and this goes to maxie as well), if you're thinking we (AND shayera) are pulling a fake-out, that she DIDN'T kill him for some reason, the staging, the music, her facial expression, EVERYTHING says otherwise. and why WOULDN'T she kill him, anyway? not only is he extremely dangerous in his current incarnation, but he's also suffering. clearly, killin's the best thing for him.

Yeah, i guess all that stuff does add up, but doesn't she say something to the effect of "it's done" or "it's over" or something? Which would lead me to believe she didn't kill him, otherwise she could have said, "i killed him." Now i know there's something to be said for indirect ways of saying things, but yeah, that's why i thought she might not have killed him.

Plus, come on, she's a good guy, do the good guys EVER kill the bad guys??

And i know it's happened in your universe before, i was just holding out hope Shayera hadn't crossed into that realm.

 

[karasu]

Vixen rocks so hard. I hope she's feautured in another episode. I Now I really can't wait to see the Black Canary in action. These guys are so good with destruction! When people crash into buildings and the like the buildings actually look... heavy. And humongous. Greaaaaaaaaaaat stuff.

 

[Cobblepot1982]

THIS is the crowd that normally bashes The Batman? Look, here's my piece on it- it had potential....but they sadly focused it more on Grundy than on Hawkgirl...and that pretty much killed it for me. I was really hoping there was more to Grundy's power than just the spell from the Necronomicon.

 

[Temple Fugate]

****

I got over the whole "HAWKGIRL'S BACK WOOOOOOO!!!!" a few weeks ago, but re-watching this ep (in W I D E S C R E E N this time. WOOOOOOOOO!!!!) I'm still loving it.

I got to like Grundy's character with "The Terror Beyond," so it was a bit sad to see the character sapped of his personality like this. But for the purposes of the story and considering what was happening to him, it's perfectly acceptable. The powering-down of Superman, while very "season one"-ish, was also acceptable. And I don't care who hates it, those dweebs in the teaser were awesome. Plus they all died (come on, they must have run into Grundy in the hallway.) so it's cool.

That's another thing...two episodes in a row we've gotten a very strong impression that random characters have died. In "Dark Heart" it was the male climber (his shoe was a giveaway), and this time we're a nanosecond from seeing Grundy's fist squeeze that dude's head in like an orange. This is a very important thing to note; that even though the Justice League always saves the day, they can't prevent EVERYONE from dying. I think this is something the Leaguers themselves should point out in the future (a-la JLA's recent story arc "Pain of the Gods"), as long as the BS'n'P sign off on the whole "death" thing, and considering JL's track record for pushing the envelope as far as CN's censors goes, it's probably not a problem.

AMAZO is awesome (and his name even got mentioned by Fate) and should never be shown in JLU ever again. Why? He's just too good. Finding a reason to keep him out of every situation will just get too contrived. This time it was chaos magic, next time? Someone with immunity to gold-colored objects? Regardless, I loved him in this ep. The chess sequence was actually a bit frightening. (Aquaman's visible reaction to the telekenesis and "New game?" was perfect.)

Someone before complained about how GL went soft on Shayera after his coldness towards her at the end of "Starcrossed." I think this is just an indication that time has healed his wounds and he's moved on with his personal life--Vixen can probably attest to that. I liked the added dimensionality we got in certain shots; occasional pans over to Vixen as she silently watches GL having more concern for Shayera than her. And finding out he never voted either way for her dismissal shows that, even after betrayal, he still has deep feelings for her.

One last note: Despite the GL/Shayera spotlight, Superman had a great moment of his own with the line "I believe in second chances. I believe in redemption." A nice throwback to his own betrayal in "Legacy" Parts I & II.

Justice League 3x11: "Wake the Dead" - ****

So wait...is the next episode "The Once and Future Thing" Part I, or "Double Date?" I thought the air order got switched due to production problems?

 

[Anon190]

"Wake the Dead" made me cry, out of pure emotional response.

I couldn't offer any real review, seeing as I'm a) heavily biased (not that is stopped me giving a review anywhere else, but 'ey, who cares), and 2) it would probably be composed of Fangirl squeals anyway.

Yes, it's a-2.

Vixen = DEATH. She just doesn't have the same chemistry with John that Shayera has. It's honestly just not there. And no, I am not just saying this because I'm a rabid HGxGL shipper. Really. I'm serious!

I missed Shayera - I'm so happy she's back. ^^