Justice League Unlimited "Patriot Act" Talkback (Spoilers)

Rate and Post Your Thoughts on the "Patriot Act"


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I-Am That Is

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Why does everyone think Eiling should've gotten the point before, exactly?

I mean, the people pointing it out are the ENEMY. You don't listen to the enemy. The civvies, however, are another story.
 

DerekPowers

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Revelator said:
The episode has further irritants, like those obnoxious, anachronistic little kids. They embody much of what I hated about Saturday morning cartoons as a child, namely those plucky little kids with amazing abilities and uninfectious enthusiasm who helped out the adults. I know those kids were supposed to be a homage to the Newsboy Legion, but when the results are that corny, some things are best left unhomaged. In my fantasy version of this episode, Eiling gets to eat a few of the obnoxious little brats and decapitate the rest by hand.
Okay, i think this is an interesting point, one i definately thought about.

I dont agree though, i didnt find them corny, BUT i wondered if others would. Let me explain:

I think that if i were a kid right now, say 10 or 11, i think i'd have found it corny. But as an adult, i didnt. I actually found it, gulp, cute. :ack: and i thought it was nice and very smart on Vigilante's part to direct them like that. i found the whole thing quite appealing, actually.

But thats all the type of thing i found extremely corny and chessy and lame when i was a kid (although i think even i, as cynical of a kid as i was, would have liked the "playing JL" at the end. Nice ending, imo). So, do you think it has something to do w/ age? Would children see that behavior and find it corny because its commenting on how people their age acts, while adults have a different POV on things, and might look at it in a more positive way (maybe because we're more removed from it, and maybe idealize kids or see it as "responsible" or something)?

Hey, all the kids out there, say under 18, especially the ones even younger say under 15, did you find those kids to be corny?? Did it seem lame or too much like an "after-school special"? I'd really be interested to here.

It was a fine line, but i thought the overall story and point they were trying to get across, not to mention the cleverness on Vigilante's part, made up for it and it worked well and felt right.

Maybe the voices of the kids had something to do with it? I thought the voices were, weird, and always thought that "kid" voice (i think its the same kid voice from "The Greatest Story Never Told") sounded strange. Maybe that had an effect on the corny-ness factor, since they didnt sound that much like kids. I dont know, im just throwing stuff out there....

comments? especially by you younger posters out there....
 

ajac

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Seems like an anti-american episode but was good. All the non super power heros (minus wildcat and a few others) vs some physco general that wishes he was the hulk. PLEASE DONT LET THIS BE THE LAST SEASON!
 

Karkull

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Lord Sidious said:
There is a deleted scene in this one.

The moment when Eiling threw Stargirl at Shining Knight but then the Knight dodged it and then went for the sword strike was DELETED.


It did not show Eiling throw Stargirl at Shining Knight at all.

It just showed Shining Knight going for his sword strike.

Was that scene shown in the UK version???
Huh...you're right. One minute Stargirl is in Eiling's paws, the next minute she's not. And, for the record, it was edited from the UK airing.

Hey, b.t., any chance of this scene being restored to the DVD cut?
 

Anon190

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DerekPowers said:
Hey, all the kids out there, say under 18, especially the ones even younger say under 15, did you find those kids to be corny?? Did it seem lame or too much like an "after-school special"? I'd really be interested to here.

*raises hand* I'm sixteen, and I found them horrendously annoying. Then again, I don't like little kids. At all. So I'm probably biased.

Ok, fine, I did "aww" at the end. :ack:
 

Karkull

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It is possible that Eiling just tossed her aside off-camera. Hey, Lord Sidious, what's your source for this?
 

Ultra Mike

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Maybe the voices of the kids had something to do with it? I thought the voices were, weird, and always thought that "kid" voice (i think its the same kid voice from "The Greatest Story Never Told") sounded strange. Maybe that had an effect on the corny-ness factor, since they didnt sound that much like kids. I dont know, im just throwing stuff out there....

I don't know about the others, but the main kid voice was done by Tara Strong. Tara "I Only Have Three Real Boy Voices" Strong. There's the young scratchy kid voice (mainly used in "Fairly Oddparents") the kid with an accent voice (Xiaolin Shodwon) and the older almost teenager sounding voice (found in Ben 10 and here). I personally found it annoying, which could of been why I found the kids annoying. But IMHO, on other shows the kids would of been WAY, WAY more annoying, since the focus was only on them for a couple of scenes.

As for the episode itself, I have to admit the ending kind of staggered off. I have the feeling of a "we tried re-editing it but it still didn't work out" feeling with Ellis just leaving like that. It's like the writers realized they had a really good story here, but coronered themselves in such a way that the only ways out were either impossible or fairly bad. I guess they went with the "best" that they could do (certainly couldn't have Ellis killing all the heroes and then running off, could you?). I think it did work for the best though. Like someone else said, I'm glad they didn't have him be completley cliche at the end and still want to keep his power and destroy the league. And I'm glad that the "seven soliders" put a good fight against him. (Although if TT "I can turn myself into an arrow" Speedy was here, things probably would of went better). In the end though, it still stands as a good ep without a good end, but that's overall still good right?

Oh and too all of those who've seen these epiosdes: would you please stop trying to spoil us all with your "you won't like the next episode/this wasn't as bad as the 'by the books' show later in the season". I mean even the "Narutards" know to put spoiler boxes around that kind of stuff. I mean hinting's fine and all, but just leave us who are watching these episodes for the first "innocence" in seeing other ones, okay? That's all I ask.
 

Arkangel

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It gets three stars just for animating the Seven Soldiers of Victory. And for giving Vigilante and the Shining Knight front and center roles. Can't rate it any higher because of the poor ending (and I also wish the Crimson Avenger had been given a better showing).
 

pharmmajor

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Apr 5, 2005
Messages
488
Human Shield said:
He made a point defeating the bunch of them, he wanted Superman which he wasn't getting. They stopped coming at him and killing civilians directly wasn't his plan (just didn't mind if they got in the way), he had won the battle and choose not to kill them after their defeat.

I liked that he knew what he was doing and felt the downside was an acceptable loss and not going crazy with "I've become the thing I hate, oh no!!!".

At first I thought the ending was a little lackluster, but you put it in a better perspective. Eiling was doing what he thought was necessary to achieve his goal, and if he had to cross the line to do so that was an acceptable loss.

And you're right, he did win the battle. He didn't need to kill them as he'd already proved his point: that he can stand up to the League.
 

AdamYJ

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DerekPowers said:
Okay, i think this is an interesting point, one i definately thought about.

I dont agree though, i didnt find them corny, BUT i wondered if others would. Let me explain:

I think that if i were a kid right now, say 10 or 11, i think i'd have found it corny. But as an adult, i didnt. I actually found it, gulp, cute. :ack: and i thought it was nice and very smart on Vigilante's part to direct them like that. i found the whole thing quite appealing, actually.

But thats all the type of thing i found extremely corny and chessy and lame when i was a kid (although i think even i, as cynical of a kid as i was, would have liked the "playing JL" at the end. Nice ending, imo). So, do you think it has something to do w/ age? Would children see that behavior and find it corny because its commenting on how people their age acts, while adults have a different POV on things, and might look at it in a more positive way (maybe because we're more removed from it, and maybe idealize kids or see it as "responsible" or something)?

Hey, all the kids out there, say under 18, especially the ones even younger say under 15, did you find those kids to be corny?? Did it seem lame or too much like an "after-school special"? I'd really be interested to here.

It was a fine line, but i thought the overall story and point they were trying to get across, not to mention the cleverness on Vigilante's part, made up for it and it worked well and felt right.

Maybe the voices of the kids had something to do with it? I thought the voices were, weird, and always thought that "kid" voice (i think its the same kid voice from "The Greatest Story Never Told") sounded strange. Maybe that had an effect on the corny-ness factor, since they didnt sound that much like kids. I dont know, im just throwing stuff out there....

comments? especially by you younger posters out there....

I'm not "younger" really (23). However, I'd like to say that I wasn't annoyed by the kids at all. I know there are a lot of people who are annoyed when kids try to help a grown-up hero, but I've liked seeing it ever since I was a kid. What annoys me more is when kids try to help and the hero just tells them to get out of there when the kids are trying to do something positive. That's why I liked what was done in this episode. Instead of Vigilante just shooing them away, he gave them an important job to do that would also keep them out of the line of fire. They handled crowd control, and they were some of the few people who could because they weren't panicking like everyone else. Though, tackling the General with the wrecking ball was kind of a dumb move.
 

b.t.

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Messages
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Karkull said:
Huh...you're right. One minute Stargirl is in Eiling's paws, the next minute she's not. And, for the record, it was edited from the UK airing.

Hey, b.t., any chance of this scene being restored to the DVD cut?

no, because it was stupid...

before editing, general threw sgirl at shiny, shiny didn't even try to catch her, just kept after general....seemed very un-chivalrous to us in the editing room, so we cut the scene short to eliminate the sgirl toss....lord sidious probably noticed that the UN-EDITED shot appears in the previous ep's end-credits (THERE'S your "easter egg", karkull)...
 

JLumember1

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Wasn't the best episode, but it was okay. When I heard Speedy was in it, I got exited. I expected him to be in the episode more than a couple of minutes though.
 

Tiny Toon Fan

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Did anyone happen to tape the episode last night? I had to work all day and night and completely forgot JLU was on. If anyone can get me a copy of the episode I would gladly pay for it. Thanks.:)
 

dtemplar

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Shadow09 said:
Also I could be wrong, but isn't Captain Nazi a Captain Marvel villain? :sad:

Yes he is, but he's responsible for breaking the leg of Captain Marvel Jr.

I would love to see an animated Shazam series in a couple of years.

BTW, who voiced Spy Smasher?
 

Chosen Raven

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A good, fun episode. Until the end, when they decided to get overly political. It'd be nice if Bruce Timm and Co. would actually sit down and talk with some of us conservatives to see what we think and feel on certain subjects, instead of just portraying us as monsters, like, I don't know, every other show on TV....
 

AdamYJ

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b.t. said:
no, because it was stupid...

before editing, general threw sgirl at shiny, shiny didn't even try to catch her, just kept after general....seemed very un-chivalrous to us in the editing room, so we cut the scene short to eliminate the sgirl toss....lord sidious probably noticed that the UN-EDITED shot appears in the previous ep's end-credits (THERE'S your "easter egg", karkull)...

True. That would be somewhat unknightly.

I have to hand it to you though, Mr. Timm, for really doing cool stuff with all these characters. You and the other folks working on JLU have made characters from all the little corners of the DCU pretty much kick ass. I mean, a lot of people wrote off Vigilante and Shining Knight just because of their rather anachronistic themes. Yet, both characters were downright awesome in this episode. Heck, I think Vig' is one of my favorites on all of JLU. Of course, I've always been partial to the more obscure characters in superhero comics. Yet, I have to thank you for being able to convince a whole lot of other skeptical people of their coolness.
 

DerekPowers

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ajac said:
Seems like an anti-american episode but was good. All the non super power heros (minus wildcat and a few others) vs some physco general that wishes he was the hulk. PLEASE DONT LET THIS BE THE LAST SEASON!
Just because it raises questions one might apply to the war on terrorism and spurs critical thinking in general, doesnt make it anti-american. If anything, it was pro-american, just by raising relevant and thought provoking questions.

I found it to be very grey, in terms of the politics discussed. Nobody was really all bad or all good, so. Eiling was really the only example of "bad", but we already knew he was a fanatic, based on past episodes. And even he raised relevant questions about the league, questions im glad they didnt just sweep under the rug after last season.

The scene with Waller also shows how its all more complicated than one side being right and the other wrong. I very much enjoyed that scene.

It seems like now-a-days anything thats political or critical of politics, political leaders or the military, is labeled 'anti-american', and i think thats just ridiculous. Ajac, i'm not really targeting this at you, (especially since you liked the episode), i'm just saying in general.

There was nothing anti-american in this episode, and i commend and thank Bruce Timm, Matt Wayne, and the rest of the creative team for tackling these issues in an effective, intellegent way, and non-appologetic way. You dont even get that kind of political phillosophy or critique on news shows in this day and age. So, thanks guys, and keep up the good work. peace.
 

Wade Kruse

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I think it's asinine to assume that every time a single character in a TV show has a political viewpoint one way or another, that it means the creative team is trying to make a statement about current politics or trying to push their political views on us. This episode wasn't about conservatives or the war or terror, it was about a comic book villain who has some extreme views. Nothing more.
 

James

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DerekPowers said:
Just because it raises questions one might apply to the war on terrorism and spurs critical thinking in general, doesnt make it anti-american. If anything, it was pro-american, just by raising relevant and thought provoking questions.

I found it to be very grey, in terms of the politics discussed. Nobody was really all bad or all good, so. Eiling was really the only example of "bad", but we already knew he was a fanatic, based on past episodes. And even he raised relevant questions about the league, questions im glad they didnt just sweep under the rug after last season.

The scene with Waller also shows how its all more complicated than one side being right and the other wrong. I very much enjoyed that scene.

It seems like now-a-days anything thats political or critical of politics, political leaders or the military, is labeled 'anti-american', and i think thats just ridiculous. Ajac, i'm not really targeting this at you, (especially since you liked the episode), i'm just saying in general.

There was nothing anti-american in this episode, and i commend and thank Bruce Timm, Matt Wayne, and the rest of the creative team for tackling these issues in an effective, intellegent way, and non-appologetic way. You dont even get that kind of political phillosophy or critique on news shows in this day and age. So, thanks guys, and keep up the good work. peace.

Absolutely. I don't see anything anti american in there beyond the media term for people not consentual to current political choices. Terrible term really implying that there is only one way to be a true American and any other way is not. Considering the country is build on freedom of speech and democracy, it's an odd term to have caught on.

Life isn't as simple as that and I think it's good a cartoon for young people can highlight that grey area rather than paint things black and white. Often, it all depends on who you are and what you need/want which defines whether something is right or wrong. Whatever your beliefs are, left wing, right wing, central.. it's rare that one holds such beliefs which you believe would be detrimental to your country.

So I would say this is anti-"anti-american". It's showing even when people are doing wrong as Eiling is, he still believes he's doing it for the country. No matter how unpartriotic anyone can seem, quite likely (unless it's a very rare circumstance) they thing what they are doing is right.

So yes, this episode seemed to be showing that all ideas are, in this context, American. Eiling is acting in a way detrimental to the civillians, but he think's it for American's best interest. He's not being anti-american or pro-american, he's just being an American with an opinion. In the end, that's all we are.

I liked this episode. Deeper than it initially looks. Only thing I wasn't overkeen on was the demolition ball and the kid being on the wrong end of it... can I say that in a PG13 forum? I guess I can. :)
 
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