Justice League Unlimited "Panic in the Sky" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Alex Weitzman

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May 20, 2003
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To add to the reasons why it was better that Cadmus used Galatea and the Ultimen than nuclear weapons, consider that it is superpowered individuals that are the real currency in the conflict between Cadmus and the League. Like the Question said, it's a superpowered arms race, which makes superpowered the metaphorical equivalent of nuclear weapons. By Panic in the Sky using them to attack the Watchtower, it essentially is the equivalent of the United States during the Cold War deciding to send a huge payload of warheads into Moscow.
 

Knight

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The Dark Knight said:
That might have resulted in the massive, fusion powered space station falling out of orbit and colliding with Earth.
So it wouldnt have done that if Galatea had succeded in destroying the reactor?
Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army.
I can possibly live with that theory.
 

DerekPowers

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May 2, 2001
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Dwayne McDuffie said:
Broadcast Standards and Practices. There's a department like this at every network that makes sure that each episode's contents are appropriate to their internal standards, as well as to the rating that each series gets. It's slightly different for each network, for instance Kids WB is generally more strict about "fantasy violence" than Cartoon Network.

And the line did add something: the assurance to every viewer that no innocents were killed. IIRC, I tried to be cute about it first draft, by having Waller say no one was harmed (but she was only answering a specific question about Cadmus personnel). I thought we could skate on that but I didn't get away with it. They wanted to be crystal clear: no one was injured.
If that was the case then why stage the fall-out of the laser so dramatically? Why show such devestation to the surrounding area, and then show the rescue effort which reminded me an awefull lot of how it was here in NY after 9-11. If you cant show 'mass murder' or whatever, then why try to have your cake and eat it too? again, i hope i dont offend anyone, but when i watch a show, things like that bug me beyond belief.

Couldnt 'Cadmus headquarters' have been located in a remote area outside the city, like we've so often seen in the dcau (those desert or remote areas surrounding cities), and the laser could have destroyed it after it was abandoned. The people in the city could still have observed the 'mushroom cloud' and felt some shocks, sort of like in "Apocolipps...Now! part 1", but the no casulties thing would be MUCH more believable, and not so hard to swallow. and that would still alarm the people about the JLU, you know.

I mean, you had whole buildings falling over in the city for crying out loud. If you know you cant have anyone die, then why the falling buildings? why all the dramatics? the line on the news about the shockwaves being felt all the way to japan? it just gets so cheapened by those forced lines that everyone is okay. I personally would have prefered a more believable scenerio over those overly dramatic scenes, and the extra time could have been spent showing more between Bats and Waller, or more of the time could have been used showing why and how Cadmus evacuated the facility, just to make it more believable. the idea of a security breach means automatic evacuation is believable for a gov facility, but more emphasis on that would make it more clear. Even showing if Luthor MEANT to fire the canon when people were in the facility would be cool. I like to think he wanted as much death as possible, but from the way things played out and from what was shown, your left with every reason to believe the opposite.

anyway, you know, i always have to give my 2 cents :p , and despite the censor issues and cadmus cop-out concerns i had w/ the last 2 eps, i still very much enjoyed them, and thank you for making, what is, imo, the best show on tv right now, animated or otherwise. and i totally know i'm going to be blown away with the next 2 eps, which i just cant wait for. peace.
 

maxnugget

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The Dark Knight said:
Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army.
Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...
 

Knight

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maxnugget said:
Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...
Forgot about that one. Yeah Cadmus has launched nukes before without much trouble. So authorization doesnt seem to be a problem. They should have easily been able to blow up the Watchtower and save the manpower.
 
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Wabbit Wuv

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OMG! I LOVE Batman in this episode!
Batsy: I'm a part-timer, remeber?
Diana: Actually, he took it better than I thought
:anime:
Commander: Where's Batman?
Flash: He's running late. You know, the Batmobile lost a wheel. The Joker got away.
LOL :D

YAY BATMAN!

BTW nice kickbutt action between Supergirl and Galatea!
 

The Dark Knight

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Dec 26, 2001
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maxnugget said:
Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...
Heh, that one slipped my mind. Of course, there's always a healthy supply of kryptonite weapons just lying around so I don't think anyone noticed Cadmus taking one. ;)

It's possible that they feared the Justice League might notice the missiles and attempt to stop them in mid flight, causing a devastating nuclear detonation in Earth's atmosphere. It's also possible that the primary mission was to attempt to take control of the Watchtower and only destroy it as a last resort (even though Galatea appeared to be a little trigger happy). It's also easier to cover up. The public wouldn't look too kindly on the government taking out the Justice League, but an explosion caused by the fusion reactor overloading can be attributed to an accident. Because it was never explicitly stated on the show the best we can manage is vague speculation, but it's not so absurd to not want to launch a barrage of nukes at the Justice League Watchtower that it should in any way detract from the episode.
 

Style

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Dec 12, 2003
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GMahler said:
Right. Because Darkseid has never attacked Earth before and never endangered the entire universe, Cadmus would just be dying to work with him.

It's one thing to work with Luthor, but friggin' Darkseid? You'd have to be nuts.
I've made my opinion on the Braniac thing clear, but I'm still glad they didn't use Darkseid in the arc. That would have been the ultimate in out of left field, fan-appeasing, inappropriate to the plot stupidity. Luthor+Braniac as the evil behind Cadmus is still a waaaaaaaaay better turn out than Darkseid behind Cadmus.
 

Squall

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Jul 4, 2001
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GMahler said:
Agreed. I've made it known elsewhere why I like the Brainiac twist, but if they had used Darkseid, I would have had a hard time being complimentary towards the final few episodes of the season.
I agree too, Brainiac was the best choice for the big surprise, but I do hope that, in the next 26 episodes, we get an overall arc about Darkseid's triumphant return to the throne on Apokolips, and his final battle with the Justice League. :evil: :D
 
K

Kojubat

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Kieralinn said:
Batman's exact words were "Two of them were already on the Watchtower."
So he was talking about when it was fired. Which means, to me, he is referring to J'onn and the Atom.

I found it weird that he didn't include himself in that scenerio also. Batman would know that Watchtower inside and out I would think, and be able to do it too. Why he wasn't part of that....who knows?:confused: He is certainly smart enough to do it if he wanted to.
My impression is that he was talking about three people who could hack the weapon controls. Batman wouldn't need to do it, since he probably has root access to the system. So yeah, I can understand him excluding himself.

I'm in the Steel and Atom camp.
 

poly4life

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Jul 10, 2005
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Knight said:
Somehow I doubt the writing staff will calrify this. For now people will have to think what they think and im going to stick with Steel and Atom since they are the two most technically inclined Leaguer's and were in charge of trying to get the Watchtowers power back up.

Also there isnt a Oracle in the animated universe.
That last point was poking fun at the animated universe; I realize Oracle has not been introduced in the DC animated universe (here's hoping!).
 

StClair

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Aug 9, 2004
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Given that Oracle is the identity Barbara Gordon took to remain active after she was shot and paralyzed by the Joker, I'd just as soon not see that "introduced" in the DCAU. (To say nothing of it being against BB canon.)

DerekPowers said:
Couldnt 'Cadmus headquarters' have been located in a remote area outside the city, like we've so often seen in the dcau (those desert or remote areas surrounding cities), and the laser could have destroyed it after it was abandoned.
Somehow I suspect you, or someone else like you, would have called "cop out" on that too.

Whether you or I or the writers like it or not, this show has a Y-7 rating. Everything in it has to be acceptable for seven-year-old children. I think the creators have done their best to tell good stories within those tight restrictions.
 

DerekPowers

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May 2, 2001
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StClair said:
Somehow I suspect you, or someone else like you, would have called "cop out" on that too.

Whether you or I or the writers like it or not, this show has a Y-7 rating. Everything in it has to be acceptable for seven-year-old children. I think the creators have done their best to tell good stories within those tight restrictions.
Nah, i would have been fine with that. I never cried 'cop-out' to the nuclear blast in 'Appokolipps...Now! part 1'.

And the DCAU has seen worse. Just off the top of my head, how about Joker's bombing spree in "World's Finest", the alien attacks in "Secret Origins", all the death in the dog-fight scenes of "The Savage Time", John Dee's wife dying, i mean, there has been a lot of death and talk about death, i dont see why what we saw in the last 2 episodes were so taboo.

Plus, honestly, our country is so warped, in a way. Look at the amout of sexuality we've had on JL/JLU. thats all fine and dandy, but people dying when a city gets bombed, eh, that somehow is too much. I mean, "Hearts and Minds" was FULL of sexual inuendo, not to mention crude and, imo, kind of tasteless lines implying sexual stuff. And, what about that female GL's outfit, GEEZ, thats okay, but realistic death isnt.

Or, and im not saying ANY of this should be edited, because i think kids can handle everything shown on JL/JLU to date, including the sexuality, BUT, just to make a point, how about the Supergirl/Galetea scene?? two half-naked babes duking it out, that scene where galatea is holding sg up by her shirt....Ahh, im sorry, but i was starting to get turned on, and i'm gay! so goes to show you what our culture values....

Now, just to chime in on the whole Brainiac or Darkseid, i'm glad it was Brainiac and not Darkseid. I'd like to see Darkseid again in the future, BUT another long Darkseid arc, i'd rather not see. Darkseid has already had his moment to shine in STAS, and had a pretty extensive arc there. I'd rather any arc revolve around a JL villian, like Vandel Savage or Dr. Destiny, or Chronos. Give someone else a chance, you know? I'd love to see him again though, and i do like how Apokolipps is being mentioned in passing a lot, like in "Question Authority". peace.
 

Squall

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Jul 4, 2001
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GMahler said:
I don't know about an arc over 26 episodes, but for the next 13, I'd like the season finale to revolve around Darkseid. Maybe a few episodes throughout the season leading up to it.
Well, I wasn't thinking that all 26 episodes could be devoted directly to Darkseid; that out of the 26 episdoes, 5-10 would deal directly with Darkseid, maybe 3 episodes could deal indirectly with Darkseid (example: the Annhilator armor plot, mixed in with the Cadmus plot), and rest could be more stand-alone episodes. :)
 

maczero

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May 1, 2005
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DerekPowers said:
Plus, honestly, our country is so warped, in a way. Look at the amout of sexuality we've had on JL/JLU. thats all fine and dandy, but people dying when a city gets bombed, eh, that somehow is too much. I mean, "Hearts and Minds" was FULL of sexual inuendo, not to mention crude and, imo, kind of tasteless lines implying sexual stuff. And, what about that female GL's outfit, GEEZ, thats okay, but realistic death isnt.
Actually, I usually hear the exact opposite of what you're saying from non-Americans. A lot of people outside the U.S. feel American pop culture glorifies violence, but we get really bent out of shape over anything sexual in the media (i.e. JJ's wardrobe malfunction).

Back to JL matters, I feel the best explanation on why CADMUS used the Ultimen instead of nukes may be they wanted to steal info or tech from the Watchtower as well as eliminate the League. Fanwanking here but this could have been Galitea's secondary objective while the League was distracted by the Ultimen clones.
 
Kojubat said:
My impression is that he was talking about three people who could hack the weapon controls. Batman wouldn't need to do it, since he probably has root access to the system. So yeah, I can understand him excluding himself.

I'm in the Steel and Atom camp.
Good point...he could probably get in anytime he wanted..his company built the thing after all or most of it anyway has to be Wayne Tech.

I didn't know Steel was that tech savy? So maybe it was him....I just figured that Luthoriac downloaded some kind of virus or wall so J'onn couldn't stop it and had to yank out the wires. He knows that system inside and out...he's on it all the time.

We all seem to be in agreement about Atom though. I'm still going for J'onn;)
 

Yojimbo

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Kieralinn said:
Good point...he could probably get in anytime he wanted..his company built the thing after all or most of it anyway has to be Wayne Tech.

I didn't know Steel was that tech savy? So maybe it was him....I just figured that Luthoriac downloaded some kind of virus or wall so J'onn couldn't stop it and had to yank out the wires. He knows that system inside and out...he's on it all the time.

We all seem to be in agreement about Atom though. I'm still going for J'onn;)
I strongly believe it was Steel, he was a weapons engineer from LexCorp on STAS.
 

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