Justice League Unlimited "Dark Heart" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Revelator]

as for "only fans of obscure comic book characters" digging the vig/knight bit, one quick scan of this thread proves you wrong...... i can only surmise that the scene works on some almost-primal level...there's not really any "logical" reason why the bit is cool, but seeing two classic hero archetypes battling monsters with sword and six-guns, backed-up by one of the absolute sweetest musical cues of the entire season, just SINGS (to some of us, anyway).

Very much so. It's silly to complain that people don't know about these characters when all you need to enjoy the scene is to watch it, because the scene works solely as cool spectacle--the dazzling sight of a cowboy on a motor bike with blazing guns team up and a golden knight on Pegasus Jr, then the joy of seeing these instant archetypes team up. I had no previous aquaintance with these characters and still loved the scene precisely because the characters stand alone as bad-a** visuals. Sometimes the gimmick of a character is so strong that simply seeing that gimmick in operation gives the sort of purely action-based thrill that exists independent of knowing anything about the character's character.

 

[Style]

To b.t.

I'm sorry. My comment came off a lot more acidic than I meant it too. Things in my personal life, you understand. I guess I can see your point about the archetypes though.

 

[b.t.]

I'm sorry. My comment came off a lot more acidic than I meant it too.

and my riposte was pissier than necessary.

.....friends?

 

[Crimson]

Sometimes the gimmick of a character is so strong that simply seeing that gimmick in operation gives the sort of purely action-based thrill that exists independent of knowing anything about the character's character.

The biggest laugh of the episode came for me, not when Wonder Woman stuck the Atom between her boobs, but Vigilante's scene. An entire platoon of soldiers carrying, ya know, big guns was completely ineffective against the aliens, and then a schmuck in a cowboy hat with two little pistols goes riding in. Accepting the viability of characters like Batman and Green Arrow in a team whose members include virtual demi-gods requires a certain suspension of disbelief, but this was just pushing it too much for me.

 

[Telle]

seeing two classic hero archetypes battling monsters with sword and six-guns, backed-up by one of the absolute sweetest musical cues of the entire season, just SINGS (to some of us, anyway).

I loved the scene, and all the old-school characters in general (I also liked the JSA/Elongated Man scene) but the music in JLU is a sore point with me --what's with the wailing guitars Bruce Timm?

 

[Style]

and my riposte was pissier than necessary.

.....friends?

[ultra-fanboy mode] The creater of my favorite show of all time wants to be friends! That is so wicked sweet awesome!!! [/ultra-fanboy mode]

Sure. It's all water under the bridge, my man. Just to let you know, there actually is lots of JLU that I do like.

 

[Fone Bone]

[ultra-fanboy mode] The creater of my favorite show of all time wants to be friends! That is so wicked sweet awesome!!! [/ultra-fanboy mode]

Sure. It's all water under the bridge, my man. Just to let you know, there actually is lots of JLU that I do like.

Lucky duck. I sure wish I was b.t.'s friend.

 

[b.t.]

Lucky duck. I sure wish I was b.t.'s friend.

since you liked the vig/knight scene, you can be my friend too....

oh wait, you didn't like grundy's death scene....hmmmm....

 

[Duke]

Y'know, this is one of those episodes where it should've been 35-40 minutes instead of 25 or so. Not quite enough there to fill a 2-parter and keep things interesting, but too much for one half-hour (kinda like the format the Scooby-Doo "Movies" had way back when).

 

[Alex Weitzman]

Catching up, slowly but surely...

They must have had this idea pretty early in the production scheme of things. All the elements are there for a "showcase" episode. Massive roll call of heroes, all showing off their powers. Various old-timers with distinct character moments. A hero new to the Timmiverse given a foe that only he can defeat, while plenty more montages of other heroes fighting ensue. So, yep, that's what it is. A showcase episode. I almost want to suspect it of being present so that Cartoon Network could see how TimmCo could handle having such a litany of superheroes to work with. The answer is.....okay at best.

What's been nice about Unlimited so far is that there's plenty of characters to choose from for any given plot, as opposed to fitting as many characters onscreen as an audience can (or cannot) handle. The Return had a lot of League members as well, but it was almost like a joke in that episode; all these superheroes appeared and sent their powers towards Amazo, who merely brushed them off with a shrug. That was moxie on the part of TimmCo, who know that the audience for this show likes those heroes used by Amazo as target practice. Here, it's just pandering. An enemy with no personality or emotional menace. Only a physical threat - a potent and persistent one, to be sure, but only usable from a storytelling perspective as the enemy that just won't die. Riba's boarding team does what it can with these guys, but there's an inherent flaw in the conception: neither side of the fight can have any real casualties. There are times that the fights are visually interesting, and the heroes do interesting things (especially Batman, of course, because he is required by virtue of his abilities to be the most creative member of the League), but these things are undercut of effectiveness because nothing effective can be done with them.

Ultimately, there is one truly strong element of this episode, and it is the Atom. Because Dark Heart is constructed as the Atom's "big moment" (a standard story amongst team heroics in television), I cannot fault the episode too much, because it does the most important part of it right. We first saw the Atom in The Return, but this episode feels more like the Atom's introduction - another hint that this episode might have been very early in the Unlimited brainstorming process. Thankfully, the Atom is one of the most engaging "new" characters added to the Timmiverse this season. He has a relaxed, easy manner to him, and he's funny. The moment where the Atom is comfortably kept safe within Wonder Woman's cleavage and manages to say absolutely nothing was odd for me at first; my inner Groucho was screaming, to say the least. But then, I realized that the Atom is not the Flash, and when I say he's funny, I don't mean he's a wisecracker, but instead that sort of social oddball that all scientists are when they try to approximate what they think are normal conversational patterns. John C. McGinley is perfectly everyman-ish yet intellectual in the role, and brings his vocal life some excellent heart. If Dark Heart is nothing else, it is at least a good excuse to see more Atom.

 

[b.t.]

The moment where the Atom is comfortably kept safe within Wonder Woman's cleavage and manages to say absolutely nothing was odd for me at first; my inner Groucho was screaming, to say the least...

Ted McGinley (famed by jumptheshark.com for killing shows he is added to, and not necessarily by his own fault; I have no such worries for Unlimited) is perfectly everyman-ish yet intellectual in the role, and brings his vocal life some excellent heart.

first of all, JOHN C. mc ginley was the va for atom, not ted (he woulda been good, too, though)...

and as for atom not quipping while riding in the Wonderbra: we DID have him saying something originally, but bs&p asked us to delete it...it was something like "just don't take any deep breaths!"....we knew we were pushing our luck anyway, so we didn't mind losing the line, nosiree, not one bit...

 

[Alex Weitzman]

first of all, JOHN C. mc ginley was the va for atom, not ted (he woulda been good, too, though)...

ARGH! Damn me for not checking the credits twice (or for checking World's Finest ). Good call. My praise still stands.

and as for atom not quipping while riding in the Wonderbra: we DID have him saying something originally, but bs&p asked us to delete it...it was something like "just don't take any deep breaths!"....we knew we were pushing our luck anyway, so we didn't mind losing the line, nosiree, not one bit...

Heh. I really wondered about that at first. It seems like such an obvious spot for a comment, but now I like that he doesn't say something. It's almost funnier standing on its own; and like I said, he's not the Flash, nor should he be.

 

[Fone Bone]

since you liked the vig/knight scene, you can be my friend too....

oh wait, you didn't like grundy's death scene....hmmmm....

Merlin Missy convinced me via PM that it was nessecary. I love her too much to argue and I now see the error of my ways.

Matt Zimmer and Bruce Timm friends now?

You have to be Merlin Missy's friend too if you accept. I love her too much to trade one for the other.

 

[Replikon Xum]

and as for atom not quipping while riding in the Wonderbra: we DID have him saying something originally, but bs&p asked us to delete it...

I myself was surprised bs&p didn't ask you to delete the whole scene. Nice to know some stations are lightening up a bit.

Xum

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

I loved this episode nice to see the Atom save the day but why did the Dark Heart look like the White Martians.

 

[Batman Fan]

I thought this was a good episode. Nice to see the Atom get a spotlight, he's a really cool character. I liked the whole alien invasion story and nice to see a lot of the league helping out, especially Batman with those Batarang swords, cool!

Very cool to see the Atom destroy the heart thing or whatever, he's a very intelligent character, and he stopped the alien invasion.

I guess the moral is, no matter how big or small you are, you can still save the world

My favorite quote is when Batman is falling and requesting back-up and says "Because I can't fly"

 

[Young Justice]

two kind of guns

Why the machine guns from the army were effectless with the spiders and the revolver gun from vigilant wasn't? For god's sake, Green arrow could destroy some of them with arrows and Batman crushed some with some sort of Bat-swords. Not likely at all.

 

[Yojimbo]

Why the machine guns from the army were effectless with the spiders and the revolver gun from vigilant wasn't? For god's sake, Green arrow could destroy some of them with arrows and Batman crushed some with some sort of Bat-swords. Not likely at all.

The superheores like Crimson Avenger, Nemesis and Vigilante are expert marksman whereas the militarymen are randomly shooting them. It can be argued that some of the drones were made from different objects but in any case the drones kept replicating no matter what.

 

[Crow]

Was this meant to be before The Return or not?

My favourite bit was J'onn and the 'Weapon of Mass Destruction'.

Batman's 'I can't do anymore' was weird but I put it down to the guest writer giving him an out-of-character line.

In a lot of ways this is the one episode out of the 13 JLU's I've seen that really acts like the opening credit purports the Justice League Unlimited to be. The 3 Leaders and or the Originals acting as Lieutenants plus multiple waves of characters.

I agree that the 'outer' bits of this were done well, but the core of it was a bit of let-down. General JK Simmon's foreshadowing, the Boston scene, J'onn were all good but the main plot wasn't overly entertaining. Maybe if less of the JLU showed up there may have been a raise in drama; but the inevitable question of 'where are the legions of Leaguers to help?' would come up.

 

[Maxie Zeus]

I missed this one on its first broadcast. But that’s okay. Somewhere in hell they’ve got it playing on a video monitor on an continual loop.

“Dark Heart” is just like Merchant-Ivory’s Howards End, but with extraterrestrial mechanical bugs instead of Helena Bonham Carter. It’s tediously glossy, goes on forever without advancing an inch in any direction, and waits until the very last moment before giving us something interesting. In Howards End, it’s when a bookcase falls over and kills a minor character. “Dark Heart” could only have been improved by the addition of a toppling bookcase. Make that a few dozen toppling bookcases.

To recapitulate in one breath both the plot and the impression it created on me: the Justice League fights robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and hey look there’s a robotic tiger in there and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and here comes the Atom! and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders and more robotic spiders. The ceaselessly replicating action gives a new meaning to the phrase “grey goo.” By the end of the ep I was hunched down in front of the TV and examining the screen through a jeweler’s loup, muttering “There’s got to be a story in here someplace.” Too late. The robots dun et it.

Leavening the endlessly repetitive action scenes was clunky, leaden exposition. Thank God the Atom isn’t a regular on the team. In his day job he’s a university professor, and (I speak from experience here) they’ve really nailed the type: a dull, long-winded fellow who’ll explain how a watch works if you ask him the time. “Von Neumann,” huh? Someone’s read a book. I only wonder what happened to the NBC-style “If you want to learn more about nanotechnology, consult your local library!” tag at the end.

Now, if you’ll pardon me, I have to go eat something. “Dark Heart” left me hungry in more ways than one.