"Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths" News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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ABrown

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I just wish b.t. would explain to us why he decided for it not to be in the DCAU. Or even if it was he who decided. Now that we know it isn't in the DCAU, it can't be he isn't allowed to talk about it.
I was going to mention how these DC Universe movies are pg-13, but then Batman Beyond:ROTJ popped in my head.
 

Dayspring

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Thank you. I REALLY appreciate this post. I keep hearing how obnoxious fans who don't want the DCAU to end are being from a handful of posters but I just don't see it. The fact that these people deriding us aren't simply debating us but trying to shut down discussion completely annoys me. I am a firm believer that there are certain things not worth debating and are right or wrong and there is no middle ground to be had with people who disagree. But this isn't one of those things.I would bet a fair amount of money that there are more people who have heard of and seen JLU than these DTVs and the idea that these will reach a broader audience is ludicrous. Fact is, these DTVs reach a NARROWER audience because they are targeted towards adults and there aren't really that many adults outside of comic book fans who are interested in superhero cartoons. And I'm also gonna bet that after Superman Doomsday soccer moms are going to be VERY choosy about which of these DTVs they want to get their young kids. JLU was one of the highest rated shows on Cartoon Network and had (and still has) a slew of merchandise based upon it.
Seconded. Thanks, Toddman! :D

As for your question regarding the point of making a DCAU with new style and VAs, I would say to continue the story itself, but by taking it into a "new, fresh direction." Though this would piss me and many fans off, at least we'd have the story element thriving again, which some (myself included) would argue is the most important of the four elements of the DCAU.

Luckily we've received official word from Dwayne McDuffie that this is not a non-DCAU World's Collide, or even DCAU with different VAs and art style. It's just an Earth Three-inspired story, meaning a general Crime Syndicate and Good Luthor story.
 

A.J

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Theres something I cant understand and its why do they refuse to bring back the DCAU...I mean, yeah the last series ended 3 or 4 years ago and yada yada yada but so what!? Why cant they just continue it with a DTV movie, some DTV mini series or something? With the DC Universe giving us a wide range of options now, why to not include the DCAU and change the only one movie for JL to another DC Universe flick. It isnt like there arent any more stories to tell or that they dont have public would run they day it comes out to buy it (Hello, the JLU Mattel line is still on!!!! geez)!!! If this Crisis on Earth 2 turns out it was the JL Worlds Collide movie Im going to be mad indeed, whats the big need to NOT make it DCAU?!? Dont tell me they ran out of stories and it all ended with Epilogue because you know that aint the reason.
 

Toddman

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Seconded. Thanks, Toddman! :D

As for your question regarding the point of making a DCAU with new style and VAs, I would say to continue the story itself, but by taking it into a "new, fresh direction." Though this would piss me and many fans off, at least we'd have the story element thriving again, which some (myself included) would argue is the most important of the four elements of the DCAU.
I'm not one to disparage the value of actual stories and storylines, but I feel the strength of the DCAU was best represented when all of the ingredients that it made it special were mixed together. It's hard to place any one of those above the other, because they worked in harmony so well.

And I'm curious, what are the "four elements" of the DCAU you're thinking of? Visual style, voice talent, storylines, and...? :confused:

Luckily we've received official word from Dwayne McDuffie that this is not a non-DCAU World's Collide, or even DCAU with different VAs and art style. It's just an Earth Three-inspired story, meaning a general Crime Syndicate and Good Luthor story.
Also curious where you read this?



Toddman
 

James Harvey

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The World's Finest has an update on the upcoming Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths direct-to-video animated feature. Click here or on the image below for more.
Additionally, due to the nature and content of the update, please keep your posts civil and within the confines of Toon Zone Forum rules. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as disciplinary action will be handed out if necessary with no exceptions made.

I also want to remind users to keep this thread on-topic. Any off-topic discussions can be spun out into separate threads.
 

Toddman

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That would seem to make it official:

"We had a script from Dwayne McDuffie called 'World's Collide' that was originally intended to be the next chapter in the Justice League Unlimited television series," says [Gregory] Noveck in the featurette, "but that series was canceled and wasn't going to come back."

... Noveck reveals that he went to writer Dwayne McDuffie, of Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, and asked him to adapt the script to be part of the DC Universe Animated Original Movie line.
So when do we start burning Greg Noveck in effigy?




Just kidding... (sort of)



Toddman
 

Dayspring

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Sooooooo confused. Exactly how much did they "morph" the WC script that Dwayne McDuffie no longer considers it as inspired by JLA: Earth-2? On the DC forums (linked to earlier in this thread) that it wasn't based of JLA: Earth-2; they just took the idea of Earth Three (pre-Crisis) and ran with it.

Maybe Dwayne couldn't tweak it, came up with a new CS+Good Luthor story, and Novek didn't know it was a new one?

EDIT: @James Harvey: Wait, what innapropriate material? I don't want to accidentally post something unwittingly.
 

Stu

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I can't say I blame them - they are more likely to attract higher sales with a new Justice League than continuation of an old one - chances are the JLU fans will be buying this regardless - I know I will.

I can't tell who the character designer is from the images shown, but I would like to compliment him on his Superman. That is a sweet Man Of Steel.
 

DisneyBoy

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I hadn't read that comment from b.t. about World's Collide being "vastly different" from A Better World. Interesting to hear...but I can't imagine how that is, seeing as how I've never read the script ;) The two seem very similar to me.

I'm always happy to boost your spirits Fone. Don't let the negative Nancys get to you. Sure, the DCAU is taking a coffee break...but it's not the first time.

And as for whoever said making it DCAU would only please the "50 or so" of us here on these boards - please note the following:

A) There's WAAAY more than 50 of us here, between past members who no longer post, and eventual members-to-be who lurk.

B) Just yesterday someone told me how much they loved Justice League Unlimited. Someone who isn't some crazy DC fan...just a fan of cartoons in general.

All this to say - it won't be forgotten, and I'm sure there's more to come.

My heart still goes out to Fone though, for all the hard fighting he's done to keep the DCAU alive all these years. I still remember the Gotham Girls webisodes petition, man. YOU helped get those babies released on the Birds of Prey set :)

There is SO much material to bounce off from I could have seen it running another 20 years without getting stale.

Well, maybe not another twenty years. I could see maybe one more six-year stint. I could have easily seen two more seasons of JLU. And the tie-in comic running ad infinitum, along with Batman Adventures. But alas...
 

ABrown

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I think that there's a lot of people like myself who in 2007 were furious that these DC Universe movies weren't DCAU movies. And as 2008 went along and went into 2009, people like myself started to adjust to these DC Universe movies. And now, like myself, have no problem with them.

For me, Wonder Woman is the only one that I'll put anywhere around the level of Batman:MOTP, Subzero, or Batman Beyond:ROTJ. And Batman:GK is the only one that I didn't like at all. I view Green Lanter:FF, Superman Doomsday, and Justice League:New Frontier as being around the same level as Batman:MOTB and Superman:BA.

So I'm ok if this isn't a DCAU movie, since I liked Wonder Woman more than some of the DCAU movies anyway.
 

Pfeiffer-Pfan

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I can't say I blame them - they are more likely to attract higher sales with a new Justice League than continuation of an old one - chances are the JLU fans will be buying this regardless - I know I will.
Well... I don't think the Justice League from The New Frontier set the world on fire.

Considering how protective Bruce Timm was of this script, i'm surprised he let it slip out of DCAU continuity. Especially considering we have seen this kind of story told a million times before...

So what exactly do we have here?

A Green Lantern that should have been John Stewart etc etc etc...

Basically this should be DCAU but it's not?

Eugh... I really don't want to sound like a raving DCAU fan nut but to quote Mr Timm from The Brave and the Bold, ''meh!''
 

bat313

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So you're telling us to “move on” from news that's a little over two days old? Give us a break. :shrug:

The possible (more likely probable) relevance of this DTV to the established DCAU Timmverse is a pertinent element of this discussion. In fact, the notion that the DCAU might be revisited at some point has been a valid point of speculation ever since JLU ended its run.

On more than one occasion from 2004-06, b.t. himself has gone on record on this very message board stating that he had hopes "Worlds Collide" might still be produced:




Remarks like those persisted in the months and years since. These were comments he made at Comic-Con in 2008:



This is another quote from Bruce Timm in Sept. of '08:


And finally, just SIX months ago - on this very site - he still couldn't give a conclusive answer when asked about a return to JLU:


A return to the DCAU has been in play continuously since 2006.

So even though the body may have been cold for the last three years, confirmation of death is barely 48 hours old.

Yours and other posters repeated attempts to shout down discussion on this topic is tiresome and frankly very unwelcome. If you're really so opposed to some fans exchanging theories and ideas about how “Worlds Collide” might have possibly evolved into “Crisis on Two Earths” and how that process may have officially killed off the DCAU once and for all, then by all means start another thread that excludes any references to JLU from discussion. Better yet, go outside and enjoy the nice weather for a while, or have dinner with some friends, or go talk to a pretty girl.

But please, leave those of us who believe the end of the DCAU to be germane to the topic at hand in peace.

And speaking to that subject:


But really if this movie isn't using any classic DCAU design theories and it features an entirely different voice cast, then what would be the point?




Toddman

P.S. One thing's for sure, it should be pretty simple to figure out what "hand-picked" episodes from Bruce Timm will show up on the special features:





You mean the mainstream general public that bought all of those Justice League and Justice League Unlimited season sets on DVD? Or the mainstream public that continues to purchase the JLU branded action figure line? Or possibly the mainstream audience that WB seems to think will shell out $100 for the complete series on DVD later this year?

I'm not even suggesting their numbers would surpass the expected turnout of consumers for JL:CO2E, but unless you think there's an average of one guy from each state that's extremely devoted and deep-pocketed, I think the number of fans who would have enjoyed a return to the JLU far exceeds what your implying.

Toddman
Thank you Toddman, for saying everything that i have ever wanted to say to all the people who keep harping "just let the DAU die already!" I've wanted to but all those B.T. quotes together for awhile. It drives me crazy, just because we love the DAU doesn't mean we hate the DCU dvd's. We jsut want the DCAU revisited again. I also can't stand the poeple who say, B.T. wanted it to end. He never said that. He said he was relieved that it was over because it was so hard to top themselves each time but he had a whole season planned about the future JLU in batman beyond time if they were renewed. Man, i would have loved to see that! Plus i would have loved to have gotten all the Mattel figures! Don't even get me started on that line. B.T. should get 25% of the profit because it's his slick design that makes those figures so appealing and they are still going strong!
 
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"We had a script from Dwayne McDuffie called 'World's Collide' that was originally intended to be the next chapter in the Justice League Unlimited television series," says Noveck in the featurette, "but that series was canceled and wasn't going to come back."

One more time...


So now, let's all bow our heads in a moment of silence and lay to rest The DC Animated Universe. It set a standard in animation entertainment that will forever be there in our hearts, our memories, and our DVD collections.



DCAU
1992-2006
R.I.P.
 

Toddman

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Sooooooo confused. Exactly how much did they "morph" the WC script that Dwayne McDuffie no longer considers it as inspired by JLA: Earth-2? On the DC forums (linked to earlier in this thread) that it wasn't based of JLA: Earth-2; they just took the idea of Earth Three (pre-Crisis) and ran with it.
Are you still saying that Mr. McDuffie has stated that JL:CO2E is not a flatout re-working of WC? Because I don't see a quote like that from him anywhere.

Thank you Toddman, for saying everything that i have ever wanted to say to all the people who keep harping "just let the DAU die already!" I've wanted to but all those B.T. quotes together for awhile. It drives me crazy, just because we love the DAU doesn't mean we hate the DCU dvd's. We jsut want the DCAU revisited again.
You're welcome. We probably all need some form of catharsis to help us digest (or stomach even?) the demise of "Worlds Collide" specifically and the final nail in the coffin of the DCAU. Sorry to say that I don't share Disney Boy's level of optimism about a return one day...

By the way regarding the quotes, there's also one floating around out there from the 2007 Comic-Con in which b.t. reiterates the same thing again, but I couldn't find that one... :p

I also can't stand the poeple who say, B.T. wanted it to end. He never said that. He said he was relieved that it was over because it was so hard to top themselves each time but he had a whole season planned about the future JLU in batman beyond time if they were renewed. Man, i would have loved to see that...
According to a published interview in '06, Timm actually said that was just one of a couple of possible directions an additional season of JLU might have taken. They were also considering a season long time-travel adventure.


Toddman
 

Toddman

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The only design from the image linked above that I really dig is the one for Superwoman. That looks fantastic.

That image is most definitely not authentic, however. I wonder if any of the pre-production work that was completed before the original "Worlds Collide" DTV was shelved will ever be revealed?

Here's the info on what had been completed before it was put on hold (from The Watchtower fansite):

"Dwayne McDuffie and I came up with the story, Dwayne wrote a terrific script, I designed loads of new characters, we started story-boarding, Andrea Romano had assembled a killer cast, and we were just getting ready to record it, and then Home Video slammed on the brakes, and it was put on the shelf for the time being."
So while Bruce Timm definitely did come up with some original character designs, they aren't the ones from above. I wonder if any of those designs will be reflected in the style of JL:CO2E, or if Timm's work from that project will ever see the light of day?

I'm also very curious about the voice cast that was originally assembled. Is it possible that since that job never came through, those actors were used later on in different roles for JLU's last season?

Maybe Michael Beach as the original choice for Power Ring? Or Alexis Denisof as Quick? Perhaps James Remar as Owlman?


Toddman
 

b.t.

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let's see if i can do this without pissing anyone off unduly....fingers crossed!

yep, CO2E basically IS the old WORLDS COLLIDE script -- it's like 95% or more intact -- major difference being the swapping of john stewart for hal jordan -- and since john didn't have a very big part in the original script anyhow, it didn't impact the overall story in any important way (we'd just come off "Starcrossed", remember, where he'd gotten some major face-time, so we felt it'd be good to let him take a bit of a breather)

WORLDS COLLIDE was always intended to be "Continuity Lite", to appeal to the broadest audience possible, to be comprehensible to people who hadn't necessarily seen every episode of JL or people who didn't even get Cartoon Network -- (remember, at the time, the season set dvd's were still a ways off) -- so there never were very many overt continuity callbacks in the script to get rid of

as to why we didn't just make it a straight-up "DCAU" film? simple answer : ZERO interest from the folks at Home Video in re-visting the old continuity -- they've invested several million dollars in establishing the new "DCU" dvd line as its own thing, so why muddy the issue by bringing back the old continuity?

putting it bluntly, getting a "DCAU" version of WORLDS COLLIDE green-lit just plain wasn't gonna happen at this time -- PERIOD.

so -- i could've just waited another five years to see if anybody at Home Video changed their minds (and run the risk that they might NEVER do so) -- or i could grab this opportunity as my last best hope of getting WC on the screen practically intact (but with new designs and new voices), and obviously that's what i chose to do

and by the way, regardless of what gregory says in that video clip, it was totally my idea to dust off and tweak the WC script for the DCU series -- he's blameless here -- any effigies that get burned will have blonde hair, glasses and very tall foreheads, okay?

and as for whether or not the DCAU continuity is "dead" or not -- believe me, i very much appreciate that so many of you guys have so much love for the old series, from BTAS through JLU (i do too) -- but frankly, i doubt that we'll be formally, "officially" doing another movie or tv series set in that continuity -- but i suppose anything's possible -- i just hate to see you guys getting your hopes up for DCAU Ressurrection Day, every time we cast kevin conroy as batman or whatever

at the moment, i'm thoroughly enjoying making these "one-off" DCU movies, and don't have any burning desire to re-visit the old continuity -- again, anything is possible, so concievably that could change someday -- instead of saying "THE DCAU IS DEAD", maybe we can just say it's in a state of suspended animation until further notice...?
 

suss2it

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let's see if i can do this without pissing anyone off unduly....fingers crossed!

yep, CO2E basically IS the old WORLDS COLLIDE script -- it's like 95% or more intact -- major difference being the swapping of john stewart for hal jordan -- and since john didn't have a very big part in the original script anyhow, it didn't impact the overall story in any important way (we'd just come off "Starcrossed", remember, where he'd gotten some major face-time, so we felt it'd be good to let him take a bit of a breather)

WORLDS COLLIDE was always intended to be "Continuity Lite", to appeal to the broadest audience possible, to be comprehensible to people who hadn't necessarily seen every episode of JL or people who didn't even get Cartoon Network -- (remember, at the time, the season set dvd's were still a ways off) -- so there never were very many overt continuity callbacks in the script to get rid of

as to why we didn't just make it a straight-up "DCAU" film? simple answer : ZERO interest from the folks at Home Video in re-visting the old continuity -- they've invested several million dollars in establishing the new "DCU" dvd line as its own thing, so why muddy the issue by bringing back the old continuity?

putting it bluntly, getting a "DCAU" version of WORLDS COLLIDE green-lit just plain wasn't gonna happen at this time -- PERIOD.

so -- i could've just waited another five years to see if anybody at Home Video changed their minds (and run the risk that they might NEVER do so) -- or i could grab this opportunity as my last best hope of getting WC on the screen practically intact (but with new designs and new voices), and obviously that's what i chose to do

and by the way, regardless of what gregory says in that video clip, it was totally my idea to dust off and tweak the WC script for the DCU series -- he's blameless here -- any effigies that get burned will have blonde hair, glasses and very tall foreheads, okay?

and as for whether or not the DCAU continuity is "dead" or not -- believe me, i very much appreciate that so many of you guys have so much love for the old series, from BTAS through JLU (i do too) -- but frankly, i doubt that we'll be formally, "officially" doing another movie or tv series set in that continuity -- but i suppose anything's possible -- i just hate to see you guys getting your hopes up for DCAU Ressurrection Day, every time we cast kevin conroy as batman or whatever

at the moment, i'm thoroughly enjoying making these "one-off" DCU movies, and don't have any burning desire to re-visit the old continuity -- again, anything is possible, so concievably that could change someday -- instead of saying "THE DCAU IS DEAD", maybe we can just say it's in a state of suspended animation until further notice...?
Thanks for all the info, glad to see World's Collide is still being made in someway.

It's sad to see the DCAU in 'suspended animation' but alas it's time to move on.

I view Green Lanter:FF, Superman Doomsday, and Justice League:New Frontier as being around the same level as Batman:MOTB and Superman:BA.
I'd have to say all four (including MOTB) of the movies you listed are leaps and bounds above Brainiac Attacks. The characters alone were done a lot better in the DCU movies, for instance in BA Lex Luthor was a bumbling fool, but in Doomsday he was a brilliant, selfish mad man.
 

mgr91686

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I really don't have any problem with the fact that these aren't DCAU connected, the only problem I have is I get insanely bitter when anybody else but Conroy voices Batman in something that's in anyway done by Bruce Timm.

As long as Bruce Timm continues to make these I will always be interested enough to give them a chance. Although I am considering making a federal case out of the lack of Conroy.

In my opinion just about anything Timm does is worthwhile and the fact that he cares enough to actually listen to the fans and that he actually seems to care about anything and everything connected to his projects, from initial conception to finished product. And the biggest plus is he takes the time out of his busy schedule to explain the various executive and creative decisions to fans who are sometimes aren't very rational at all. I like it when he takes the time to respond to us.

Bruce Timm is the greatest promotional tool that this DTV series has, and I look forward to his future projects. However the wait for each movie kills me.
 
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