JLU too adult oriented?

Dusty

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Personally i find JLU and JL season two had too much "adult" oriented stories in it, So my question for Bruce Timm (if he doesn't mind) is why put all of this stuff in a show for 7-11 year olds, I loved JL season one for reasons of it being a fun superhero show with tons of action and good stories, it had little to none of this stuff in it, i get sick of watching these "childrens shows" turn into adult sex junk, Sorry if i criticized u or the show too much but this is just my opinion, so again why bother even putting these sort of lines or scenes in a kids show? thank-you for your time,




Dusty Mocho,
 

Supremus

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The DCAU shows have always had a little bit of innuendo here and there, particularly when Harley was involved, but apart from some really bad dialog in Hearts And Minds, I don't think they have come anywhere near to crossing any kind of line. What in JLU has been too adult themed for your liking? The only thing I can think of was a slighty torn Supergirl outfit and the infamous Wonder-Bra ride, but that was all pretty harmless.
 

b.t.

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i'm also curious what specific bits or lines of dialogue you deem "too adult"....after all, even season one had its share of "nudge nudge wink wink"("who's hand is that?", the entire "diana at the playboy mansion" sequence, etc)...
 

Killtacular

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It's not too adult oriented. It's just too complex. And its story settings are so alienating to kids that it's no wonder kids do not tune in as much. Bleak warscapes, government conspiracy, and inane "comic relief" clearly gunning for a chuckle from the comic book nerd (who would find it hilarious that Phantom Stranger -- or whoever -- would knock on a door and ask if anyone's seen a pig).... kids don't even have a chance to get into it.

Part of it stems from the self-imposed demand that every story be "epic". There's a reason why South Park took Kenny out of the show, and why when he returned they only killed him once a season. You can't have the same exact thing for dinner because then dinner becomes the least anticipated meal of the day. And to make one more analogy, noone wants to have Christmas every day.

What makes Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS and Teen Titans thrilling is that they'll have a lot of filler stories that are light and brief jaunts, briefly exploring character relationships but mostly just having the city be a character to be defended and build the plots from this device. But then they'll have the special, out-no-nowhere "epic" episode where characters are pushed out of the box and create new ideas and twists, and these episodes are a fresh slap to the face. It's Christmas morning.

I THOUGHT that that was the direction JLU was taking when the first episode was largely a filler story (town needs help, defeat monster) and the second episode was a great character study, that would fall into the latter category. But then the rest of the season has just left me scratching.

The idea is, filler episodes that don't progress story or character but feature exciting action and showcase the heroes at their best and brightest, are what excite kids. Then the epic episodes can not only keep their attention, but also wow the older crowd that stays tuned in. But mostly the filler episodes would/should allow Timm to take a step back, re-evaluate the show's direction, make tweaks, maybe bring in some new rookies to board or write... there's no way this formula can fail (unless of course the episodes are poorly written, directed, and boarded.. and I haven't really seen a three-way combination this season... yet).

I know it's not exactly the answer to your question, but it's in the same line of thinking. I think the show's reaching a little too high, which I suppose is nice for 18-34 year olds, but leaves kids high and dry, and that Nickelodeon poll where Teen Titans was favored over Justice League ~65% to ~35% says it all, really. Just what demographic is the show favoring anymore? I don't want this just to sound like a typical Matt Wilson complaint fest, I'm just trying to suggest that I think the aim of the show is a bit fuzzy... it clearly treads into TV-PG material half the time and I don't really know how anyone at WBA could say with a straight face that they take kids into consideration when they write the show now.
 

Dusty

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I would agree with you here:



What makes Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS and Teen Titans thrilling is that they'll have a lot of filler stories that are light and brief jaunts, briefly exploring character relationships but mostly just having the city be a character to be defended and build the plots from this device.


Justice League Season one was more like what matt just said,

S2 and JLU a bit more,
 

EJill34

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Matt Wilson said:
Bleak warscapes, government conspiracy, and inane "comic relief" clearly gunning for a chuckle from the comic book nerd (who would find it hilarious that Phantom Stranger -- or whoever -- would knock on a door and ask if anyone's seen a pig).... kids don't even have a chance to get into it.
It was Crimson Avenger.
 

b.t.

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Matt Wilson said:
I know it's not exactly the answer to your question, but it's in the same line of thinking. I think the show's reaching a little too high, which I suppose is nice for 18-34 year olds, but leaves kids high and dry, and that Nickelodeon poll where Teen Titans was favored over Justice League ~65% to ~35% says it all, really. Just what demographic is the show favoring anymore? I don't want this just to sound like a typical Matt Wilson complaint fest,

don't know where you're getting your numbers (i'd hardly call the nickelodeon poll conclusive "proof" of anything), but the ratings i've seen say we've had major gains in "kid" demographics this season, all across the board. maybe it's the rock music, maybe it's all the multi-colored new characters ("new toys"), maybe it's the stand-alone self-contained story format, whatever it is, more kids are watching JLU than ever watched JL. so, yeah, i think this IS a "typical matt wilson complaint fest". huh, imagine that.
 

MJC

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I've never found the show to be "adult-oriented" or "complex". As a kid I was a fan of Spider-man:TAS and X-men:TAS, and they had far, far more convoluted, complex (and in X-men's case, adult) stories than JL. But then again, I might just be a nerd.

And I don't think it's fair to compare it to Teen Titans, they're different kinds of shows, and Teen Titans (being bright, colorful, action-packed, and usually having little plot) is much more likely to appeal to kids with ADD and people who are channel-flipping.
 

Dusty

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I still watch JLU but just was wondering why it had all of the stuff in it, i still do prefer JL season one though just because to me it's better, thanks Mr. Timm, for your time i can't say at all that your shows are horrible, they are the total opposite, they are great outstanding TV Shows, but like every show and movie it has some things that some find not quite as enjoyable, or others see things different wich is what i have noticed i think i am the only one who has found it a little more adult oriented than i would like it, thanks,
sincerely,



Dusty.

oh yeah now i remember can i ask one more Q? i was wondering why did you change some of the colors on mongul he looks diff.
anyway thanks,
 

Supremus

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I agree with Matt about the complexity issue of JL(U). It has probably shifted its audience a little bit with its government conspiracies and epic stories, but it's obvious from the forums that a lot of people still like it, even prefer it this way.

Personally, I think Superman TAS season 1 probably found the best balance. I love the simple little episodes, and the alien invasions were countered by robotic dinosaurs and old-school gangsters and villains. Those episodes felt like real old-fashioned, fun superhero stuff, but I am not sure it was that popular with the kids either. Even Batman TAS had it's fair share of heavy episodes, and didn't WB and FOX demand more Robin for the kids? Has the DCAU really ever been the preferred place for the kids? I mean, the stupid ones that vote in Nickelodeon polls? :)

As good as STAS and BTAS were, would this same formula still have been interesting a 100+ episodes down the line with JL? JL, by its very nature, is the kind of show that lends itself more to the big, epic stories, and sometimes they have nailed it, but more often, maybe not. For me, JLU has had 1 outstanding episode, 1 really good one, 3 good ones, and a few more that were nice attempts but lost points on style and execution, but they could very easily have become good episodes, so overall I don't think that's bad at all, and we still have 2 episodes to go. I think they have the right formula, it's just that the writing lets them down from time to time. Last season I would have given the edge to Teen Titans just slightly. Titans had a solid season and Hearts and Minds was a -10000 on a scale of 10, so that pulled down the average a little :)

Either way, I certainly don't think JLU should lower itself to a level that appeals to the Teenage-Super-Monkey-Digi-Poke crowd, and I doubt toning down what is already very mild innuendo would make any difference to the kids. I sometimes crap on JLU a little bit when it's no good, but this season has been enough of an improvement to make me hope it sticks around for at least another 2 seasons, but maybe that's because I'm an adult... despite what my girlfriend says.

 

Simpler Simon

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As someone who becomes more and more "adult" every year (yea right) I like how JLU sneaks in adult touches without pushing the envelope. A scene of GL looking at Vixen's skimpy modeling garments only has the connotations the viewer gives it. So whose mind's in the gutter now?
 

Dusty

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Personally, I think Superman TAS season 1 probably found the best balance. I love the simple little episodes, and the alien invasions were countered by robotic dinosaurs and old-school gangsters and villains. Those episodes felt like real old-fashioned, fun superhero stuff, but I am not sure it was that popular with the kids either. Even Batman TAS had it's fair share of heavy episodes, and didn't WB and FOX demand more Robin for the kids? Has the DCAU really ever been the preferred place for the kids? I mean, the stupid ones that vote in Nickelodeon polls?


I agree i loved that show, i wish it had new episodes, and simon what reason do (you) think GL was looking at those for?



D.
 

b.t.

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Dusty said:
oh yeah now i remember can i ask one more Q? i was wondering why did you change some of the colors on mongul he looks diff.
anyway thanks,

(overly loud): sorry guy, if i answer YOUR question, then i have to answer EVERYONE'S questions....

(whispers): okay, originally, we wanted to re-design mongul COMPLETELY for "ftmwhe", to make him scarier, more massive, etc, but ran out of time, so we settled for adding some darker colors here and there to his outfit.....good call, by the way, i think you're the first person to have spotted the slight design tweak....
 

Dusty

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Thanks a ton! for answering all my questions, i personally think he is scary either way, but not half as scary as Darkseid, :)




D. :)
 

Harley Quinn

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b.t. said:
after all, even season one had its share of "nudge nudge wink wink"("who's hand is that?", the entire "diana at the playboy mansion" sequence, etc)...
I LOVED that episode...particularly the Heff character.

I don't find Justice League obscene or R-rated in any way, whatsoever.
 

ClockStomper

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Matt is onto something. The episode where Batman disguises himself as Thorne to have the booby trap guy steal the cape and cowl had a brilliant twist adults could appriciate, but it was also simple. My 8 year old brain could get it.

But "Dark Heart" was complicated for the sake of being complicated. All the nano-schmano techno-talk wasn;t that interesting without some emotional tie to the story. It just becomes a bland procedural, a CSI type thing, if you will.
 

Stu

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The fact that superheroes now appeal more to adults could also have something to do with it. Those hundreds of millions of dollers from the X-Men and Spider-Man franchises wasn't just kiddies and parents.

The fact that comic book themselves are now aimed at adults may also have something to do with it, whereas when Batman and Superman first premiered, they were still trying to reach kids, now, as adults have more disposable income, comics are aimed towards them.

Still, it's not as if there's nothing for kids to enjoy. Everyone's making it sound like JLU has taken a Spawn root, and completly ignored them.
 

Allen CARR

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Justice league is never to or even close to being to explicent. I mean, dusty said he liked season one, but i found most of the action packed stories like "war world" in season 1 ,dull and very pointless. Dusty you have an avatar of Justice leagues superman season 1, which means your a fan. So tell me this, did you enjoy superman getting tossed around, buy amazons, and struggling to lift cars? or did you like how unemotional and or robotic he was for the first 13 episodes?
 

Fone Bone

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b.t. said:
don't know where you're getting your numbers (i'd hardly call the nickelodeon poll conclusive "proof" of anything), but the ratings i've seen say we've had major gains in "kid" demographics this season, all across the board. maybe it's the rock music, maybe it's all the multi-colored new characters ("new toys"), maybe it's the stand-alone self-contained story format, whatever it is, more kids are watching JLU than ever watched JL. so, yeah, i think this IS a "typical matt wilson complaint fest". huh, imagine that.
I would think the big draw for younger viewers for JLU is the fact that most of the stories are single parters. When I was a kid I hated two and three parters. I want my ice cream NOW NOW NOW! Definately easier for kids to get into and yeah, the new characters and toys are gravy.

Dusty are you a soccer mom?
 
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