JLU "The Once and Future Thing, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback, Part I (Spoilers)

Rate and Post Your Thoughts on "The Once and Future Thing, Pt. 1"

  • *****

    Votes: 59 44.4%
  • **** 1/2

    Votes: 28 21.1%
  • ****

    Votes: 31 23.3%
  • *** 1/2

    Votes: 4 3.0%
  • ***

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • ** 1/2

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • **

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • * 1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • *

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Old West Stuff Makes Me Snorey

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • Total voters
    133
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b.t.

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actually, i kinda like "meh".....at least i know what it MEANS, which is more than i can say for "teh suck" (i swear to god, the first two or three times i read that, i figured it was a typo, and i still don't have a clue what it ACTUALLY means -- besides being somewhat derogatory, i gather)...

gee, so many interesting theories about next week's episode....(heh heh)....seriously, who'da thunk there'd be this big a foofaraw....don't get me wrong, it's gratifying as hell to get such a big reaction (good, bad and "meh"), i'm just kinda surprised is all.....

for the record, there is, in fact, no "official" date for the BBEYOND world...i always wanted bruce to be in his early eighties in the show, the network wanted him to be younger (this IS kids wb we're talking about here, remember)....according to ME, BBEYOND is 50 years from now, according to publicity materials, it's only 40.....it HAS to be 50, when you think about it: bruce has to be at least 60 when he quits at the beginning of "rebirth", and he meets terry 20 years after that....whatever, i don't guess it's all that important....either way, we have enough wiggle room....
 

b.t.

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DerekPowers said:
I would MUCH RATHER have seen 4 other JLU members. Maybe Zatana, Flash, and J'onn, off the top of my head, and maybe keep Jonah. That would have been MUCH more interesting. Really, why is this called JLU when we only get on average 3 heros per episode. The JL odds were so much better, and they had like 43 less heros to choose from. Seesh, i'm really getting tired of these pointless cameos, especially when those spots could be filled by JLU character. Then maybe we'd get some character development from the heros, and if they had only used Jonah as the western figure they meet, then maybe he could have gotten some development too, or atleast bonded w/ one of the heros (maybe he and Zatana could have had some sparks, who knows).

you've GOT to be kidding....the ONE time we're gonna be in their neck of the woods and you'd rather have seen zatanna, flash and j'onn than fake-maverick, fake-tonto and fake-zorro???....for pete's sake, guy, you can see those other guys ANY day (well, except for flash, of course:D)...
 

Simpler Simon

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b.t. said:
you've GOT to be kidding....the ONE time we're gonna be in their neck of the woods and you'd rather have seen zatanna, flash and j'onn than fake-maverick, fake-tonto and fake-zorro???....for pete's sake, guy, you can see those other guys ANY day (well, except for flash, of course:D)...
I loved the old west gang, but I do think El Diablo was seriously underused. Hex had the cool one-liners, Bat Lash got a lengthy intro sequence, and the Sheriff had a backstory...El Diablo got to use his whip twice and introduce himself a champion of justice...and that was it.
 

Revelator

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[QUOTED: SJJ] I like "Meh". It's a nice simple description. I surprised it's caused such irritation.

Well, take note that only one person has expressed irritation with it so far, and that's me. The rest of the board, including b.t., is fine with the psuedo-word. So this will (hopefully) be my last comment on the subject.

Whatever emotive description used, as long as it's backed up constructively, be it positive, negative or apathetic, it shouldn't matter.

Well, if you've backed up an emotive description, chances are that the emotive description isn't even neccesary by then. Chances are that a writer is forced to think a little more and write better when he or she isn't relying on crutch-expressions to telegraph their point. Yet the internet is strange hybrid medium and I consider myself guilty of infringing rules I normally would never break when writing in other mediums...I find smilies like that green face with tongue sticking out to be incredibly stupid-looking, but I use them when making wisecracks that aren't meant to be taken personally by fellow board-members. I wouldn't need smilies were those comments made in person or print.
Seeing "meh" on a message board is a mild irritant. But if I saw it used in a review, even for an online publication, I would be truly angry for being at the mercy of a writer who couldn't be bothered to come up with actual words. That's my final say on the topic.
 

Gillespee

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b.t. said:
for pete's sake, guy, you can see those other guys ANY day (well, except for flash, of course:D)...
I'm amazed at your ability to take criticism with such candor and self-depracation. Nicely done.

Bird Boy - I really wasn't trying to criticize, call continuity fouls, or anything of the sort. It looked the same to me as you before it was pointed out to me, I was just trying to point out that not everyone had yet noticed or heard.

Anyone who cries continuity foul on the 10 seconds we saw is jumping the gun. I think it's obvious some things have changed since our last visit to the BB timeline, we'll just have to hang out until Saturday to find out why.
 

Mr. Obsession

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b.t. said:
for the record, there is, in fact, no "official" date for the BBEYOND world...i always wanted bruce to be in his early eighties in the show, the network wanted him to be younger (this IS kids wb we're talking about here, remember)....according to ME, BBEYOND is 50 years from now, according to publicity materials, it's only 40.....it HAS to be 50, when you think about it: bruce has to be at least 60 when he quits at the beginning of "rebirth", and he meets terry 20 years after that....whatever, i don't guess it's all that important....either way, we have enough wiggle room....
But wouldn't that make Barbara in her 70's? Kind of pushing it for a active police officer, considering mandatory retirement. But like you say, "whatever." :)


As for the episode itself, it was silly and I enjoyed it. As long as we're entertained that's all that should matter right? And what's more entertaining than cowboys riding robot dinosaurs (besides ninja's riding real dinosaurs)? Weird western tales indeed.

I have a feeling that part two is going to be "dark and depressing" half of the story, which after it airs will make us glad that part one was silly and fun.

I also have to say that I've enjoyed John's loosing up this season. Maybe it's a holdover from his time during "Kid's Stuff" but he certainly seemed to be enjoying himself when he made that cheesy Scooby style ghost. Hurray for silly constructs! :)
 

kwyjibo

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Dec 5, 2004
Messages
28
I'm not enough of a comics geek to have a fangasm at all the references, but I'll just say I enjoyed the ep. Some points of note:

Diana's grudge against Shayera confused me. Did she vote to expel Shayera at the end of Starcrossed? Batman did, and he doesn't seem disturbed by her return.

So, Does Chronos know that Bruce Wayne is/was Batman? He's seen Bats' face, knows he's named Bruce, and Bruce Wayne is/was a famous(at least probably recognizable) billionaire. That's almost as careless as carrying your school i.d. in your costume.

About future discrepancies(Static's look, Bonk's alive, Terry teaming with JLU): With Static, JLU and Static Shock are different shows with different designs. With the rest, I wouldn't be surprised or mad if the next ep slightly retcons the whole BBeyond/DCAU future timeline. Batman being in JLU at all contradicts the "[Batman] wasn't much of a joiner" line in The Call. Batman is one of the founders of JLU as well as its financial backer. And one thing to point out about Bonk in the next ep is that
Henry Rollins isn't voicing him, according to http://imdb.com/name/nm0738433/

Lastly, I'd like to say that in a forum where each detail in the chronology/mythology of a universe is so closely debated, I'm surprised there isn't more use of the flippant "a wizard did it."
 

b.t.

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Nov 11, 2003
Messages
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Simple Simon said:
I loved the old west gang, but I do think El Diablo was seriously underused. Hex had the cool one-liners, Bat Lash got a lengthy intro sequence, and the Sheriff had a backstory...El Diablo got to use his whip twice and introduce himself a champion of justice...and that was it.

well, yes, that's true...just not enough time to give him more to do...consider him the obligatory "red-shirt" of the episode (at least he got to speak a FEW lines of dialogue)....
 

Squall

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kwyjibo said:
About future discrepancies(Static's look, Bonk's alive, Terry teaming with JLU): With Static, JLU and Static Shock are different shows with different designs. With the rest, I wouldn't be surprised or mad if the next ep slightly retcons the whole BBeyond/DCAU future timeline. Batman being in JLU at all contradicts the "[Batman] wasn't much of a joiner" line in The Call. Batman is one of the founders of JLU as well as its financial backer...
Well, "not being much of a joiner" is not the same thing as "not being a joiner at all". Batman can help found the JL, and take part when he feels he's needed, but not be much of a joiner at heart. As for "The Call", I always thought that Batman Beyond joined the JLU as a member who showed up when he felt he was needed, like his predecessor.

Hey, continuity is very important to me, and I never saw that as a violation. :p
 

Nick K.

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b.t. said:
so...bendis fan, are you?
Mwahahaha!!!

I am. =(

But seriously, I agree that the chatting was an awesome part of teh episode, but certainly not something that a whole episode should be based upon. A little of it per episode would be great.
 

otter

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Messages
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Hawkgirl sure does look a lot better without the helmet. Hopefully she threw it away in the trash.
 

b.t.

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Mr. Obsession said:
But wouldn't that make Barbara in her 70's? Kind of pushing it for a active police officer, considering mandatory retirement. But like you say, "whatever." :)

seriously? 50 years from now, people in their seventies will be MUCH younger-seeming and vigorous than they do today...not that big of a stretch, really...much more plausible than flying cars....
 

Allen CARR

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Listen partners, i reckon we will get something extra good next week, dun you guys and gals get all upset and none, i for see one wild ride. Alot of that action, and maybe alittle of what you call "Romance". It gonna be a treat partners, wOO hoo PARTNers, i just can't wait to skin me some Batman this week!
 

DerekPowers

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b.t. said:
you've GOT to be kidding....the ONE time we're gonna be in their neck of the woods and you'd rather have seen zatanna, flash and j'onn than fake-maverick, fake-tonto and fake-zorro???....for pete's sake, guy, you can see those other guys ANY day (well, except for flash, of course:D)...
Actually, no, we CANT and DONT see them any day, and thats the problem, imo. That is one of JLU's biggest flaws, to be perfectly honest with how i feel.

Look, we are CONSTANTLY getting pointless cameos, and its really takes away from the overall CONCEPT of the show. In the original JL series, we had, on average, 5 out of the 7 heros, often times 7, PLUS the villians, PLUS the occasional villian team up, alternate universe league/guild, whatever. Thats ALOT of heros and villians.

In JLU we get, on average, 3-4 out of the dozens of JLU heros. I just think its not a team show anymore, its not a Justice League show, its a team-up show, and its a shame, because it defeats the point of the show, which is supose to be a JL show. If its a team-up show, then call it that.

Then to top it off, in JLU, we get episodes like "Ultimatum" and "The Once and Future Thing" part 1, where we technically do get more than 3 heros, BUT the problem is that most of them arent even in the JLU! I dont care about the lamo ultimen. I dont care about these b-list wacky western heros, its like, who cares, the show is called JLU, i want to see the JLU. And having them in the background with no dialogue doesnt count or cut it, imo. Instead of doing a whole show dedicated to the Ultimen and their trials and tribulations, why not replace them with 5 other JLU heros and tell us about THEIR trials and tribulations? AND that would make a whopping 9 heros for that episode, including the 4 that were in it (batman, superman, aquaman, and ww). I would SOOO much rather see Green Arrow, Dr. Fate, Entrigan, The Star Spangeled Kid, and Vixen, then the Ultimen. They are SOOOO MUCH COOLER. I just dont get it. I mean, the show is supose to be about the JLU, right? With so few episodes (13 eps a season rather than 26), and with SO MANY heros in the JLU, it just seems like a real waste to focus on these ridiculous corny characters when we could be focusing on the ones we all want to see. AND episodes like "Ultimatum" and TOAFT show that you can have quite a good number of heros per 1/2 hour episode, its just ashame the the majority of the heros in those episodes werent even part of the JLU, and were 1-dimensional, and we'll never even see them again. The Ultimen and spaggehtti western dudes get whole episodes dedicated to them, the rest of the JLU gets background cameo shots with no lines. again, i dont get it.

The 4 western guys were just so 1-dimensional, i mean, you have to admitt it. By the end i didnt care at all about either one of them, i didnt feel they bonded or made any kind of connection to the League, it was so flat. And you know what, i'd rather Jonah Hex be the only westerner there, even if you didnt add JLU members to take the places of the others. Then atleast we might have gotten some decent character development out of him, instead of a 1-dimensional, forgettable appearence by a cool character.

I hope I'm not being too harsh, because i have nothing but respect and love for you and your art, but I want to give an honest critique. And to be honest, i did like the episode, i just felt it fell short in a lot of ways. And i also think JLU does keep getting better, i like it a lot more now that most of the season has aired. there were some good eps this season. I just wish we had more JL-style team episodes, with only the occasional 'team-up' style ep, rather than the other way around, you know. "Wake the Dead" is a good example of really using a larger JL-style group of heros in very good and interesting ways, despite the horribly rechid mercy killing. anyway, i just wish we'd see more of that instead of a mere 3 heros per episode is all.

But, good episode. I liked it overall. i tell ya, once i get going i cant shut up. peace.
 
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maxnugget

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So far no one has commented on the fact that Red Tornado was seen eating/drinking in the cafeteria despite being a robot. I'm having flashbacks to that freaky spaghetti scene in "A.I"...

b.t. said:
seriously? 50 years from now, people in their seventies will be MUCH younger-seeming and vigorous than they do today...not that big of a stretch, really...much more plausible than flying cars....

Very true. I think that's something that's often overlooked during debates over how many years have gone by in timelines, etc. In fact it's very likely that within a few more decades medical science will be capable of slowing down the aging process do a near-standstill, making immortality a reality.

Personally it saddens me to think that if I had been born 50 or 100 years later, I'd probably get to live a super-long time or be relatively-immortal, so I could get to see what happens centuries, even millenia from now, but, because I'm born in the late 20th century, I'll probably just miss the time period where humans make the switch from mortal to immortal.

So sue me, I'd KILL for the opportunity to live forever... :cool:
 
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