"Iron Fist" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

Rate this series.

  • *****

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • ****1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ****

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ***1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ***

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • **1/2

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • **

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    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
35,412
Location
Framingham, MA
Iron Fist "Snow Gives Way"

I like Danny Rand but the rest of the show seems a bit badly written.

I liked two really cool moments though.

I love where Danny is talking to the homeless guy and he laughs at his ridiculous suggestion to pee on his shoes. At first the homeless guy is offended and thinks Danny is making fun of him. In reality he's laughing because he finds their appearances and philosophies are enough alike that people see them the same way.

The other moment I like was Danny describing to Ward in the car the abuse he suffered at his hands. Ward had two interesting reactions. First he now knows it's Danny, no matter what he says. The second thing is now that he knows it's Danny, he's gonna deny the abuse. I don't know much about Ward but I know that I don't like him.

Interesting first episode. ***1/2.

Iron Fist "Shadow Hawk Takes Flight"

I hear the rest of the series is underwhelming, but I loved this episode. A lot.

First off, when you've lost Joy... Ward just lost the narrative.

I love that the fight at the end is the thing that pushed the drugs out of Danny's system so he could become the Iron Fist. Here is an unkind opinion. He's super dumb. When Joy's colleague says that if that WAS Danny he could have chosen a different and smarter way to come back, Joy is wrong for asking what else he could have done. He could have had a Plan B in place in case he wasn't believed. Made more friends and allies in New York or even just the outside world before attempting to go home. He should have earned Colleen Wing's trust and respect BEFORE he went into Rand Enterprises and claimed to be the big cheese with no proof. And how hard would proof need to be? The M&M's thing is nice, but if Danny weren't super dumb, it's the first thing he would have brought up. If his only proof is intimate details of the Meachums' lives, than he should have thought to have brought those up immediately.

For the record, I don't buy there is no other way to prove he's Danny. There's got to be someone out there with Rand DNA and maybe Danny should have started out looking for them before trying to start at the top of the mountain.

I love the doctor. I love that he winds up believing Danny. But he goes into his Iron Fist stuff he's gotta commit him anyways. Danny was almost freaking out of there! How dumb is he for that thinking sounded SLIGHTLY plausible without proof? That's a conversation for AFTER he's off the meds, not before.

I laughed at the Dream Team doctor / patient who tried to stab Danny with a fork. That was hilarious.

Upon seeing Colleen's posture with her scene with Ward I was reminded strongly of Mary Catherine Gallagher: "Sometimes when I get nervous I stick my fingers under my armpits and then I smell them like this!"

I love this episode and I love Danny. Simply because I am rooting for somebody this dumb to actually make it. ****.

Iron Fist "Rolling Thunder Cannon Punch"

Madame Gao!

Upon Joy offering that dude the kidney I thought she was super good at her job. And then she later tells Danny she isn't his sister and I'm like "Nope."

The evil genius about the kidney scene is that you wanted that guy's nephew to get it so you were rooting for the Meachums to win about this one thing.

I really dislike the implications of a white man schooling an Asian women martial arts, or telling a class half filled with black students that they chatter like monkeys. I hear this show got a LOT of bad press and without actually checking it out for fear of spoilers, I'm wondering if stuff like that is part of the reason why.

I love Hogarth's trick with the fingerprint. She is a stone cold witch, but she has value.

Didn't like this one. **1/2.

Iron Fist "Eight Diagram Dragon Palm"

I love that the Chinese Triad immediately becomes apologetic once Danny mentions the Hand. For the opposite reason Danny expects. I think only ONE guy getting a sword in the head is probably what the mob boss considers a fair punishment.

How did Ward actually think that story was going to go with that report? Somehow this doesn't seem like what Harold was talking about when he asked him to handle it.

Colleen's stuff doesn't interest me in the slightest. Because there is no actual reason for her to be having the meltdown she is having. I saw why Trish was breaking down on Jessica Jones and Misty on Luke Cage. Literally nothing has happened to Colleen that should be making her as messed up as she is.

All right. Although I think it's a bit ridiculous Danny was welcomed back into the fold two episodes after he was in a mental hospital. Probably would have been better to save that for the season finale. ***.

Sorry for the double posts but I'm watching and reviewing this show a bit at a time. Somebody post after me so I don't do it again.

Iron Fist "Under Leaf Pluck Lotus"

Who does the end think it's kidding with the "surprise" Madame Gao reveal? Of course it was her. The end credits even listed her by character name in the episodes she appeared in shadow.

I like that Danny thinks his vow of chastity is no big deal and a given. It would be a source of embarrassment for most men, but for him it's a no-brainer.

I love that Joy is cold and mean throughout the first meeting until the woman sobs and she gets totally rattled from that.

I love that the first thing Colleen does upon learning Danny owns her building is to order him to fix her sink. Good girl.

All right. ***1/2.

Iron Fist "Immortal Emerges From Cave"

Meh. Danny fights better than Daredevil at any rate.

This episode was kind of a snore. Hoon Lee is basically a less ethical Splinter here. I liked Danny asking the Hand lackeys if they got their taunts from a schoolyard. And of course the final guy he has to fight is the Karaoke sociopath from the beginning. This guy is supposedly valuable enough that Madame Gao cheats to make sure he survives. I am afraid we are going to see more of this nozzle.

Ward's stuff was interesting though, simply because it was the first time I sympathized with what the character was going through. I don't like him, but his actor is good at his job.

Sort of a dud. **.

Iron Fist "Felling Tree With Roots"

My first thought upon Ward killing Harold is that it probably won't stick. He's probably immortal like Madame Gao's lackey on Daredevil. And I was right.

I love how Danny absolutely screwed over the board just then. Yeah, they kicked him and the Meachums out because of it, but they cannot go back on that specific commitment he made, which is the thing that actually matters. I'm interesting to see how this plays out.

Do you know Madame Gao's biggest weapon? Her voice. She is reasonable. She makes a total surrender to evil not only sound rational and palatable, but easier and something that will lead to a comforted unencumbered life. She is the serpent incarnate. Every encounter she has with Danny and Matt I think "She doesn't sound so bad". And then I check myself when I remember what she is responsible for. She is every bit the master power player Wilson Fisk failed to be. He took things too personally. I don't see Madame Gao being killed off or sent to jail anytime soon. What a great villain.

I liked this episode. ****.

Iron Fist "The Blessing Of Many Fractures"

All things considered, that was well put together. But it still totally sucked. Very well made and written episode. That doesn't work at all.

The problem is that Ward's actor is too amazing for the role. Which leads me to believe the writers are leaning on the character more heavily than they planned to because of that fact. Which is a mistake. The show isn't actually about Ward. When his stuff was in the background of episodes it worked, but now that they've given his spiral the same weight as Danny's it is ineffective, and feels wrong for this particular story. It's good drama. I'll give it that. But it's also not drama that should be done with a secondary character on a superhero show. They are focusing too much attention on the stuff with Ward and Joy.

And no, that stuff wasn't actually BAD. It's just in the wrong franchise. I absolutely love Ward's scene with Lawrence as he gets more and more desperate as it goes on, and Lawrence gets more and more disgusted. Or I'd love it on a show that wasn't about superheroes. It's off-topic is what I'm saying. And as well written and acted as it was, I refuse to see it as an acceptable plotline in the Marvel franchise. Ward is NOT Tony Stark. We should not be investing this much energy into his descent into guilt ridden murderous madness due to that.

I thought Drunken Master was awesome and the best part of the episode. And then Danny kills him and we aren't allowed to enjoy that anymore.

And it would have been okay if Claire hadn't been on her soapbox about that specific thing. Because suddenly her and Colleen are now murderers (accidental or not) simply because she was foolish enough to draw that line.

Do you know what I like? Colleen pushes back on it. She almost has Danny half convinced, but despite her repeated run-ins with superpowered people, she is not actually any more insightful about that particular subject than anyone else. As long as SHE is operating outside of the law here too, she has no authority to be making those kinds of blanket statements. And I like Colleen calling b.s. on it because usually Claire monologues this stuff to the hero one-and-one, and makes her morality seem convincing. She's never had to argue two on one with herself the dissenting opinion. And I like that she's starting to realize she's losing control of the argument, and building resentments with people she believes she is trying to help. And nothing says that more than Danny revealing that her words of comfort about turbulence were spoken by his mother before she was ripped out of a plane. Claire is hot and smart, and pretty much gets whatever she wants with the various heroes she pushes up against. Unless there is two of them. Then she becomes alarmingly unpopular.

I like that her last words were gonna be stating regret for going on this mission.

Madame Gao's mistake is thinking she had a better hand than she did. I don't think Madame Gao is going to win the season. But I also think she will get off relatively unscathed, lick her wounds, and fight another day. Threatening to "Kill the women" only should have been spoken aloud if she was 100% certain it was going to happen. Because it didn't, she looks weak, and has no choice but to surrender to the heroes upon her culpability for the parents' death being revealed. Rare misstep for our Madame.

I love that Danny gives Joy those puppy dog eyes when he asks her if losing the company is his fault, and instead of trying to make him feel better she's all "Ayup." Because that's the actual truth. Love it.

Honestly, I get why people are frustrated with the show. It's good on some level. But it focuses on the wrong things. *1/2.

Iron Fist "The Mistress Of All Agonies"

Old woman speaks with forked tongue.

Snap judgment: Danny should make sure to never, EVER kill Harold again. That was bad enough. Although I knew the beginning of the episode was coming all along.

I knew the most likely outcome of Harold approaching Ward with the knife would be him dropping it, hugging him, telling him he loved him, and begging for forgiveness, but it was still a bit of a shock to actually see it.

Danny doesn't already know how to heal people? He was be the suckiest, worst-trained Iron Fist ever.

I'm calling b.s. with the idea that you can make perfect and sharp throwing stars with sandwich tin foil. No way.

Harold putting doubts about Ward leaving by saying he'd have to involve Joy instead was a great gambit.

I know the end with Colleen wasn't a betrayal, but just based on the way they treated Claire, it felt that way anyways.

I love Danny accusing the women of ganging up on him. How do you think Claire felt last episode?

I love Harold telling Kyle his "Amazing" wasn't a compliment. I agree. Upon hearing that lame fantasy I half agreed with Harold killing somebody this dumb.

Free opinion: If Claire Temple can beat up some Hand guys, they are not the threat they are advertised as. They tried to walk it back by suggesting these specific dudes were military, and not trained in that particular art. But if anything, Claire beating up guys with guns is even worse. Especially considering Madame Gao had been talking them up seconds earlier. It's like Xander and Dawn slaying Ubervamps in the series finale of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. It is actually unacceptable.

I liked this episode otherwise though. ****.

Iron Fist "Black Tiger Steals Heart"

Eh. That was all right. But honestly, I kind of feel like there is no good guy in Danny and Colleen's fight. First off, there was no good time to tell Danny. She is right that he has been brainwashed. He is not willing to even ENTERTAIN a second opinion about the Hand. When he asks her when Bakuto directed her to sleep with him, he's not just the d-word of year. He's completely irrational. Because that scenario makes no sense whatsoever.

On the other hand, Colleen is an idiot for thinking there is a good faction of the Hand in the first place. Ironically this is not something Danny could know or prove. I only know it as an outside observer to the franchise. If there WAS a second, good faction of the Hand all along, Stick would have mentioned it to Matt Murdock on Daredevil. And there were several opportunities to do so, and Stick would have known it, and that is information Matt would have desperately needed in Daredevil: Season 2. So the fact that Stick isn't aware of it, means the entire thing is a huge con with Colleen the biggest dupe. I'd feel far worse for how terribly Danny treated Colleen if he wasn't completely right about the people she calls family. The difference is that I have objective, verifiable proof for my opinions, and Danny is like a cult member screaming a mantra. But it's not like the mantra itself is untrue, even if Danny is brainwashed into saying it.

I love the subverted dynamic that Joy is mad at Harold, and not Ward. That is so great. And she's mad at the right person. She literally saw how this was eating Ward alive, and I love that her first judgment is that it's not his fault. And that is not the first instinct for most franchises that pull crap like that.

Harold thinks he's clever with his lawyerball to Joy at the end, but I think he can just shove it. What he just said was far enough away from the truth that is wasn't a white lie, it wasn't a lie of omission, and it wasn't a half-truth. It was a pretty blatant effing lie. I hope she kicks him in the balls for it.

I'm disturbed to realize that this is episode ten and we still don't know at this point why Danny left his post. This should have been addressed earlier.

I was a bit aggravated by this. **1/2.

Iron Fist "Lead Horse Back To Stable"

Claire had a dang good point. If this "faction" of the Hand WAS good, why didn't they call themselves something else to distinguish themselves from the bad guys? And why didn't Colleen think to ask that?

Here is plothole. How is it that Colleen's students who have been in the Hand for a few weeks are let into the organization's evil secrets, but Colleen has been in the dark for over a decade? Not buyin' it.

Davos likes pizza and he knows it.

Not bad. But not great either. ***.

Iron Fist "Bar The Big Boss"

Not feelin' this one. I question why every single Marvel hero seems to be wanted by the law at some point. It's a bit tiring. As was the episode.

P.S. Harold sucks. *1/2.

Iron Fist "Dragon Plays With Fire"

The cliffhanger was all right but I was mostly bored with this. I mean, I didn't see the struggle in having to kill Harold. He was a murderer and he framed Danny for a crime he didn't commit. He needed to go. I thought Colleen offering to do it was a reasonable compromise. Why does Claire think differently? And if that's the moral, why is Ward suddenly off the hook? The problem with the no lethal force thing EVER is that often superheroes are fighting a war. Now there's difference between murdering people like the Punisher does, and killing someone in the heat of battle. Even Goliath from Gargoyles, the most noble character on that show, recognized that fact. Why do superhero projects keep trying to tell us it crosses the line? Cops kill criminals who try to kill them all the time. Now cops go overboard, but if the person fighting the bad guys IS a hero, if they occasionally take a life like Oliver Queen does, that's the price of doing what they do.

Ward's arc was too long this season, but I will not deny that it was interesting. He basically went from a bad guy trying to kill Danny to a good guy siding with him against his father. Frankly, if he can do that, I don't buy Joy's "Tell me more" to Davos at the end. Because it wasn't Danny who screwed up her life since he came back. It was Harold and it always was. How dumb is she to think differently? And she is playing into Madame Gao's hands now. Is Davos Hand now? If he is, he sucks. Totally. After all the crap he gave Danny for not destroying them, if he actually knows Gao is at the next table and is working for her, he's a complete phony.

Here's an opinion: Harold might have won the season had he not framed Danny. Ward might have kept his mouth shut to keep the peace, or simply left, Joy or not. Because Harold framed Danny, Danny caught on to him. He never would have visited Madame Gao to learn the truth if he wasn't on the run in the first place. Dumb move from an altogether dumb villain. Cremation was the right way to go.

This season was weak. I hope The Defenders is better, but I hear it's worse. I hope that reviews are as wrong about that as the ones for The Last Jedi. I hope. Off to watch that miniseries now. **1/2.
 
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