"Gotham" Season Five Talkback (Spoilers)

[Road to Gotham]

Only props missing from Scarface was a cigar and a tommy gun.
Otherwise It was very good likeness.
I agree, its a shame to rub out Scarface and his dummy.

 

[TheLemsterPju]

Look closely at Penn's body after he got shot. He's still breathing a bit.

If Penn can survive being shot through the chest, he can likely live through this with possible brain damage. (That may be why he could end up mute and incorrectly remembers himself as being "Arnold" like his comic counterpart.)

 

[The Penguin]

Right now on FOX.

"The Trial of Jim Gordon"
Thursday, March 7, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on FOX
After Gordon is shot in an attempt to establish a cease-fire, he hallucinates a trial for his life that could have deadly real consequences. Meanwhile, Ivy returns and puts her spell on Bruce, leaving Selina to defend herself. Lee has a life-changing moment as Barbara and Penguin consider their next moves. - TVGuide.com

 

[Fone Bone]

Gotham "The Trial Of Jim Gordon"

I'm pleased. I did not want a perfect season. That would inconsistent with what the show has done before. I like that this episode was dumb and totally sucked. I'm giving the ep a single star for reminding me why this show frustrates and challenges me in the first place. But this was really bad.

Except for Victor Zsasz. He makes everything better.

I love when Bruce brings up the perfume Lucius calls it a weird change of subject. It totally was.

Didn't see the one-month flashforward at the end coming, but it's the last season. What can it hurt?

In a show with a ton of different characters, one of the favorite tropes is having one of the characters you hadn't seen the entire episode pop up and save the day. Alfred knocks out Zsasz here. The problem is that if you do that, you should probably come up with a reason the character is there in the first place. Alfred has no reason to be in or near that shoot-out with Zsasz.

Gotham sucking near the end feels right. *.

 

[The Penguin]

Right now on FOX.

"I Am Bane"
Thursday, March 21, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on FOX
Shortly before Gotham is supposed to be reunited, Gordon and Bruce confront a newly transformed Eduardo and learn the identity of the person responsible for the city's current state of chaos; Barbara decides to seek help from Lee.

 

[Fone Bone]

Gotham "I Am Bane"

Didn't dig that. Didn't feel like the third to last episode, and as if the show were wrapping up like it should. Plus there is going to be a four week hiatus until the last two episodes, which strikes me as badly planned and timed. That is not the time for the show to take a break. It's weird that Fox thinks it is.

Why is Barbara not in a hospital gown when she is in labor? Why is she clearly wearing a dress and pantyhose? And why is she still in that same outfit after the baby is born?

Nyssa Al Ghul interests me because the character as seen last week on Arrow is one of the few to survive the various network character embargoes that are screwing the Arrowverse up. This version is bad while Arrow's is good, but DC loosening these types of restrictions at all is a good sign.

Alfred vs Bane is like the most asymmetrical fight ever. Again, didn't dig it.

Weak third to last episode. **1/2.

 

[The Penguin]

Gotham returns!

"They Did What?"
Thursday, April 18, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on FOX
Gordon and his former enemies work together to protect Gotham City against Bane's final plans to destroy it; Nyssa al Ghul takes Barbara's daughter with the intent of raising her as her own child; Bruce's choice to leave Gotham hurts Selina.

 

[Fone Bone]

Gotham "They Did What?"

Great episode title.

That episode completely failed the entire premise of the series. That was everything the producers swore up and down wouldn't happen.

And you know what? I couldn't be happier. The premise as described from the producers from the beginning sucked. It was initially supposed to be Gotham getting worse and worse until it ends with Bruce putting on the cowl because things had gotten so irredeemably horrible, violent and desperate. Basically this was the one DC series with a guaranteed unhappy ending. That's an audacious idea, but for a TV series that has lasted five seasons, that would be very unsatisfying to the audience. What the show decided to do instead was end what is clearly the end of the show set in the present on a victory, and show the fall-out of the additional years we do not see lead to Batman in the last episode. The show will have a good resolution of sorts after all if this plays out the way I'm thinking it will. Basically the producers of Gotham came out with the biggest bummer premise in DC television history, and completely chickened out when it came down to the wire. And I'm glad. That would have been a lousy ending for a show that lasted five years. It would feel incomplete. Supposedly next week will a Batman episode, and further along than the producers ever planned. Which is a good thing, whether it betrays the original vision or not. The original vision sucked.

And you can tell this is the last episode set in the present just based on the amount of callbacks they did to the first season and the first episode. I thought Ed's rant at the end was pretty dumb, even for him, but I love the hug. Him and Penguin BOTH have knives at the other's backs, but ultimately cannot bring themselves to use them. As hardcore and Ed and Oswald's promises of power and ruthlessness are, in the end, they can't stop caring about each other. Which frankly made me forgive the stupid rant. It was a great moment, particularly because I didn't predict either of them holding back the way they did. That's why it worked.

I imagine in the future adult Bruce Wayne might someday wonder what drove that nice girl he used to know to become the villainous and cruel Catwoman. Um, Bruce? That! That! Catwoman is a mess of his own making, and she's probably the only rogue in the continuity I think that about, no matter what Nyssa claims.

A year ago I would have scoffed at Gotham giving us a good ending. If they had stuck to the landing, as they swore up and down they planned to do, we'd never get one. It's not a sure thing, and if any show is capable of evaporating any vestiges of goodwill I feel towards it, it's Gotham. But a good, satisfying ending next week is also not out of the question because of how they chose to end this second to last episode. Gotham ending well would be one of the strangest turns in DC live-action history (and is still not a sure thing). But it MIGHT happen, which blows my mind.

We'll see. As of now the show completely failed the premise. Good. The premise sucked. The episode was great. *.

 

[The Penguin]

"The Beginning..."
Thursday, April 25, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on FOX
In the future, Bruce gets ready to return to Gotham and attend the grand opening of a new Wayne Tower; recent crimes convince Gordon that The Riddler and Penguin are back to their old tricks, but he soon discovers a broader sinister plot.

 

[RoyalRubble]

Interview with executive producer John Stephens about the series finale.

 

[Fone Bone]

Gotham "The Beginning"

My mandate to myself and this review before watching the final episode was "Lower your expectations." Gotham has been on its best behavior this season, especially compared to how bad every other previous season was, but I knew a satisfying ending was a longshot. The entire premise of the series is flawed.

And that was NOT a great ending. As far as Batman origin stories go, it was perfunctory and underwhelming. Do you know what it was not? A hot-mess, garbage-fire of dog poo. Believe me, considering the series' troubled history, that actually means something to me. I didn't expect great things, but it could have been a LOT worse.

Random thoughts:

I cannot figure out what they did with Selina. Did they recast her, or age her up with CGI? I couldn't tell. It appears in this continuity Catwoman and Batman know their secret identities from the get-go, and the Joker's real name is actually known as well. Different things for the canon, but hardly something that hurts things elsewhere.

I am disappointed in Joker. Simply because I know what Cameron Monaghan has in him (Jerome was the best live-action interpretation ever, who put Heath Ledger to shame, and would be the best Joker period if Mark Hamill didn't exist) and as scary as the make-up is, he's much more reserved that Jerome usually was, which is sad to me). But it's not like the scene was long, or gave him much time to shine anyways.

I am glad the Batgrowl is not a thing. The Batgrowl is the worst thing Nolan ever produced, and that moron Zack Snyder went with it as if it weren't totally insane. But an electronic voice modulator does the exact job of masking the voice, while allowing Batman actual voice inflections as if he's a person instead of a cartoon. Frankly, for a good Batman interpretation, Batman should be a good enough actor to separate the persona via voice on his own without sounding like a lunatic, but if they can't do that, doing the Arrowverse trick is the next best thing.

Fat Penguin is also a bust, and to be honest, once the show saw how badly Robin Lord Taylor wore the fatsuit, it should have been smart enough to nix it immediately. He does not have the build or the walk to pull off the massive weight. The thing that saddens me is that this seemed more like a nod to fans than anything else. But the truth is Taylor's Penguin never needed the weight to work for the show. He's not my favorite Penguin ever, but I liked the fact that he was unlike all of the other Penguins. And I did not feel that they actually needed to fix what wasn't broken for the last episode. Do you want to know something fun? As much smack as I talk about fandom, I doubt the series ending with a thin Penguin would have upset anyone at all. It's the unconvincing fatsuit that make Oswald lesser in the final episode than he should be.

Can I just point out that it seems extremely ill-advised that Bruce was barely in the last episode? Just saying.

That was many things: Serviceable, mediocre on some level, safe, inoffensive, and most notably, not overly tragic. The last thing is what the writers claimed they were building towards from the start, but not only do I think it would have ruined the ending of a five season show, as seen here, it's not actually needed. The hopeful ending plays much better. ****.

 

[Road to Gotham]

Well, was it worth the wait to see Batman?
My answer is a big-fat "NO!"
Like Catwoman, Batman should have been recasted.

Gordon shaving off his mustache after 30 seconds is another bone-headed decision by Jim.

Joker wannabe was wasted. Whats with the decayed look? YUCK!

Only scene I like was Catwoman sneaking in to purloined the rock. Good job by Lili Simmons
for taking over the role from Camren Bicondova in the this final episode.

episode grade, 'D+'
Series Grand, 'D'

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