Firestorm villain Multiplex in JLU's "Dead Reckoning"?

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#1
This may already be common knowledge, but I can't find anywhere on the 'net it was mentioned. I was watching the JLU final season DVDs last night, and the episode "Dead Reckoning" (with Deadman) had Luthor and co. appear at Nanda Parbat with an army of guys dressed in blue. I feel really dumb about it, but I did not realize until last night that these guys in blue were probably the Timm-verse version of the Firestorm villain Multiplex.



Given that Multiplex and Firestorm were created in the same nuclear accident, that gives some potential evidence that Firestorm was definitely kicking around the Timm-verse. As a big Firestorm fan, I thought was neat. :D
 

BCVM22

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#2
It's certainly possible that the creative staff intended the foot soldiers to be a reference to Multiplex, but given that their uniforms match that of Devil Ray in color and design almost exactly, they're seen crewing Devil Ray's submarine in To Another Shore and they're seen sparingly if at all following Devil Ray's death at the end of Dead Reckoning, it seems far more likely that they're soldiers in the employ of Black Manta and/or the Legion (think of them as an evil version of the purple-jumpsuited support staff aboard the Watchtower).

The most logical conclusion is that they aren't intended to be the DCAU version of any particular villain and, on a practical level, are merely utilized by the storyboarders and animators to add bodies to a scene and perform necessary background tasks whilst the villains can remain in the foreground, fighting and/or engaging in dialogue. To presume their presence to be proof of a Firestorm in the DCAU is shaky logic at best.
 
#3
To presume their presence to be proof of a Firestorm in the DCAU is shaky logic at best.
Oh, come on. I said *potential*; there's no reason for you to be a snoot about it.

I just had problems believing Devil Ray would have such a *massive* crew in his employ. Especially in the final battle, it was beginning to look like Devil Ray ran his own country or something. The Multiplex explanation would allow me to suspend disbelief a bit more; but hey, that's just me.

And as for why Multiplex would hook up with someone like Devil Ray? Well, could it be that the submarine is nuclear powered? Who better to have than a nuclear expert who can turn himself into an army of nuclear experts. Devil Ray may have even been getting a bargain out of the deal. After all, Devil Ray wouldn't be splitting the loot between an entire crew of different people; Multiplex is really just one guy and only spends money like one guy, so it becomes a kind of partnership instead.
 

BCVM22

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#4
I just had problems believing Devil Ray would have such a *massive* crew in his employ. Especially in the final battle, it was beginning to look like Devil Ray ran his own country or something. The Multiplex explanation would allow me to suspend disbelief a bit more; but hey, that's just me.
Massive is very much a matter of opinion. We don't see more than 10-20 of them at a time. We only see them once after Devil Ray kicks the bucket (they assist with the train heist in The Great Brain Robbery). That a supervillain has a small group of henchmen (who all dress exactly like him...) in his employ is not difficult to believe.

And as for why Multiplex would hook up with someone like Devil Ray? Well, could it be that the submarine is nuclear powered? Who better to have than a nuclear expert who can turn himself into an army of nuclear experts.
But one argument against this can be found in this pan, where the leftmost individual is clearly dark-skinned. Wouldn't part of Multiplex's schtick, were it him, be that all of his clones were identical to him?
 

b.t.

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#7
neat theory, true...but, no.

bvcm22 is correct, they're just devilray's own personal henchmen (d-ray's direct dc analogue black manta always had a bunch of henchmen, in the comics at least), and any design similarities to multiplex are purely coincidental...honestly, i don't even SEE much design similarity myself, they look pretty much like generic bad guys in quasi-scuba outfits to me....

but as for firestorm hisself...

i think i've mentioned this before, we definitely WERE planning on using him in JLU, but it just never worked out...."the greatest story never told" started as a firestorm story, but as we were breaking the story it became more and more comedic, and we soon realised it would work better with booster gold in the lead....

and actually, we had started with a quite different story altogether that we ended up killing at the outline stage...it was going to be firestorm's origin, with a jl vs. clayface "a-plot" mixed in, but it just wasn't working, so we threw it out and started over from scratch....after several more false starts we wound up with the "greatest story" plot, and then had to replace firestorm to make it work....
 
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#8
Identity Crisis/52 SPOILERS!!!





That would have been intersting because then that would have been two DC heroes in the DCAU that would have been killed soon afterwords. Assuming that you guys would use the Ronnie Raymond Firestorm, it would have been him and The Question.
 
#9
neat theory, true...but, no.
Ah well, at least it was an interesting thought. :)

I was never terribly upset about lack of Firestorm in JLU; I loved seeing so many other characters in JLU who had never had a chance to shine anywhere else. Firestorm had a bunch of time in the sun during the old '80's Super Powers cartoon; but old flame head can be fun at a party too (especially with Professor Stein in the mix causing Firestorm to talk to himself in front of people lol).
 

Weibart

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#10
I could take or leave Firestorm, because I honestly don't know much about the character. If he did appear in JLU, it would've been interesting to see how his design would be translated. Never been a big fan of his outfit, so it would've been cool to see how b.t. and crew would approach him...
 
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#11
I don't know that much about Firestorm either...I never liked him enough in the Superfriends to buy the comics or research him any further. On the Superfriends, he was nearly all powerful & was used mostly as the lead hero with the rest as his support.:mad:
 

b.t.

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#12
If he did appear in JLU, it would've been interesting to see how his design would be translated. Never been a big fan of his outfit, so it would've been cool to see how b.t. and crew would approach him...
and THAT'S why he never showed up at all, not even as a "seat-filler / red-shirt" hero -- james and i both did a few firestorm sketches and quickly decided WE didn't really care a whole lot for his costume either!

if his story had actually gone through, we would have HAD to find a way to transform the basic design into something we found visually appealing, but still retained some of the original motifs...for sure we would have kept the flaming head (you can never have too many of those) and DEFINITELY would have lost the puffy sleeves.... but when we killed the story, we realised we already had enough "background" heroes, and didn't need to bother cracking the "firestorm" code...
 

John Cage

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#14
if his story had actually gone through, we would have HAD to find a way to transform the basic design into something we found visually appealing, but still retained some of the original motifs...for sure we would have kept the flaming head (you can never have too many of those) and DEFINITELY would have lost the puffy sleeves.... but when we killed the story, we realised we already had enough "background" heroes, and didn't need to bother cracking the "firestorm" code...
Huh. That's kinda neat. I always wondered why Firestorm didn't make it into JLU. I've always liked his outfit myself -- I like the puffy sleeves because they're so tacky -- and think the whole goofy teen-brilliant professor combo is a neat gimmick. Too bad B.T and company never got around to "cracking" him, but they did well by so many other characters I can't complain.

Have a good day.
John Cage
 

b.t.

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#15
... but old flame head can be fun at a party too (especially with Professor Stein in the mix causing Firestorm to talk to himself in front of people lol).
firestorm's ongoing "one-sided dialogue" with prof. stein was, of course, one of the things we liked the most about the character, the one signature gimmick that makes him unique (among dc heroes anyway -- the gimmick is obviously a blatant lift from mar-vell / rick jones)...

...but it made the story-break process even harder and more complex -- setting up ronnie raymond's back-story, introducing the professor, showing the accident that fused 'em, showing him discovering his new powers and dealing with the prof.'s disembodied voice in his head PLUS having a real JL action "a-plot", and ending with firestorm officially joining the JLU -- that's a helluva lot of story to cram into 22 minutes...

one of the "false start" story ideas we toyed with for a hot minute: we were thinking of doing a story with firestorm and professor stein narrating the entire episode in "director's commentary" style.....but soon realised it would be just way too confusing to a non-geek audience, without having already set-up the firestorm gimmick in a previous episode...not to mention having TWO disembodied voices narrating the story would almost completely cancel out the effectiveness of prof. stein's usual presence...

hmmm...come to think of it, i wonder if we were subconciously remembering firestorm when we came up with the lex / brainiac's ghost gimmiick in the "legion of doom" arc.....but no, actually, i think we were just stealing from "six feet under"....
 

Karkull

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#16
hmmm...come to think of it, i wonder if we were subconciously remembering firestorm when we came up with the lex / brainiac's ghost gimmiick in the "legion of doom" arc.....but no, actually, i think we were just stealing from "six feet under"....
That reminds me; I have a question that's been eating away at me since watching Season Five. Was Brainiac actually in Lex Luthor's head, or was it a means for Grodd to control him? And if it was, why did it go away following the destruction of the LOD's headquarters?
 

Toddman

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#17
...but it made the story-break process even harder and more complex -- setting up ronnie raymond's back-story, introducing the professor, showing the accident that fused 'em, showing him discovering his new powers and dealing with the prof.'s disembodied voice in his head PLUS having a real JL action "a-plot", and ending with firestorm officially joining the JLU -- that's a helluva lot of story to cram into 22 minutes...
Oh come on... Superfriends was able to pull all that off in 1984...and they still had time for Darkseid to kidnap Wonder Woman as his unwilling bride...;).

Anyway, still cool inside info on the potential Firestorm/Clayface story. I remember that being mentioned during the "This Little Piggy" commentary, and I was wondering how it all tied together. Thanks for sharing!


Toddman
 

b.t.

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#18
That reminds me; I have a question that's been eating away at me since watching Season Five. Was Brainiac actually in Lex Luthor's head, or was it a means for Grodd to control him? And if it was, why did it go away following the destruction of the LOD's headquarters?
we deliberately left it open to interpretation, but personally, i think brainiac's ghost was totally a figment of lex's imagination...in other words, lex was cracked, and manifested the ghost himself, just out of his own burning desire....once darkseid returned, lex's subconcious was convinced that brainiac was gone for good, hence brainy's voice went bye-bye....

we never even considered that grodd was manipulating lex by sending him visions of his lost partner-in-godhood....hmmm, interesting interpretation...i concede that it's possible....not much definitive textual evidence to suport it, though....
 

Toddman

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#19
we never even considered that grodd was manipulating lex by sending him visions of his lost partner-in-godhood....hmmm, interesting interpretation...i concede that it's possible....not much definitive textual evidence to suport it, though....
My biggest problem with that is Grodd's obvious confusion when he first realizes Luthor's been talking to himself during half of their first conversation in "I Am Legion."

I had always assumed the Brainiac voice was real, but when Darkseid's "spirit" used the Brainiac technology (an extention of Brianiac himself) to ressurect himself, he fully supplanted Brainiac's entire essence, hence Luthor wasn't able to hear his voice anymore.

But whatever, Lex being one sandwich short of a picnic works too.


Toddman
 

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#20
Im guessing there aren't any of the Firestorm sketches lying around somewhere. Im not a big fan of Firestorm but seeing where you guys might have tried going with it wouldve been neat.