"Final Space" News & Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "One Of Us"

I felt like this was a bit of a holding pattern for the show. Fox is in a bad place, but I don't feel like things progressed much otherwise.

I do have a comment. And it disturbs me. I find the things Tibor is saying and doing outright sinister. They are played for laughs, but truly, is this the show known for not taking that kind of thing seriously? There is a legit case to be made to me that Tibor and Quatro will be the Big Bads of Season 4. Nothing about how he was treating the aliens he was "saving" was remotely noble or heroic. Him getting a cult of followers strikes me as a REALLY bad sign instead.

We'll see what happens next week with the Lord Commander's ship. Fox is too lovable of a character to be out of play for long. ***1/2.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "All The Moments Lost"

This is not just legit sci-fi, it's legit drama.

Even BoJack Horseman at its most dramatic never lost the trappings of the fact that it was a comedy. It was a dark comedy, and it was one that moved me greatly at times. But it never fully descended into the dark place where no laughter really exists, and the only jokes in this episode seem to come from Kevin, the show's least funny character.

I'll tell you what I liked. Gary telling Quinn Avery was still alive as long as she was able to remember her, and that if she died, so did Avery. He tells her he wants to hear about her, which is amazing. I think a lot of people suicidal over a loss might think twice about it if they realized that by killing themselves, they are killing the previous memories of that person, and very much erasing a large part of their presence from the world. It's a stark, unflinching notion that probably should be brought up more for people who simply think their deaths would only mean the ends of themselves. It's a surprisingly adult thing to explore about guilt and grief and what the people left behind are responsible for.

Littlecato's rage at Ash being left behind was shared by me. There HAS to be a better solution than to keep doing this. They HAVE to figure this out. Or Fox and Ash will only be the beginning. Quinn looks to be next, and if Gary wants to prevent that, some changes in thinking and tactics are going to have to be made. Hard decisions are ahead, and perhaps the hardest decision Gary should be making is being able to risk all of his friends to save one of them when they need them. Maybe the Vulcan proverb actually has the "needs of the many" thing wrong and has the entire time.

Do you know what I've noticed about the Lord Commander? Whether it's The Tenth Doctor, Kilgrave, or Scrooge McDuck, David Tennant's voice performances and even his demeanor during those performances are eerily similar. It disturbs me very much that Kilgrave acts almost exactly like the Tenth Doctor. The Lord Commander is the one performance Tennant does where he isn't doing his outwardly sunny personality, often masking darker intentions. He's actually putting in a legitimately dark performance, which is something the guy must have done before at some point, but not something I've actually seen. It's very interesting.

I am very impressed by this show, and I'm very impressed Olan Rogers finally seems to have gotten TBS fully on-board his vision. That's step one. The second step might be harder: Having TBS support and renew the show despite it not going in the direction the network envisioned when it picked it up. TBS is awesome for finally taking the risk to make the show Rogers wanted. Will it take the risk to let him go the distance with his clearly epic story? That is to be determined.

This is no longer the show with characters getting into piss fights. And it's all the better for it. ****1/2.

 

[SweetShop209]

Season 3 has finished production.

 

[NeoplanDan]

Season 3 has finished production.

I guess this is it.

Sent from my LM-X420 using Tapatalk

 

[Fone Bone]

I guess this is it.

Sent from my LM-X420 using Tapatalk

That's not what that tweet says at all.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "Change Is Gonna Come"

That was interesting. I'm not gonna say "Good", because it looks like the series is going to be exploring things I won't like. But I can't say "bad" for sure either because I don't know how those things will play out.

Gary taking all of Quinn's pain was like the greatest love-story allegory they could have done. It was amazing stuff.

Similarly great was Hue. The best moment of the episode is when Gary is outraged he knew Quinn was sick and didn't tell him, Hue says he felt bad, and did it anyways. And then he asked him if this is what it meant to be human. This is the best Data moment Star Trek never gave Data. I'd go so far as to call it better than any Data moment because it was an idea I can relate to, which was rarely true of the human comparisons on Next Gen. It was actually pretty deep when you get right down to it.

Similarly brilliant was Hue telling Gary that he cannot give Quinn more time because it belongs to none of them. Another line that Data SHOULD have said at some point, but the writers of Star Trek simply weren't clever enough to come up with for him.

Finally, we get to the stuff with Ash and Invictus. I'm not gonna say I trust this show and that I bet it will make it work. But I'm also not going to preemptively declare it a future disaster or shark jump. Unlike the shady last season of Tangled: The Series, I'm not willing to declare the writers fools for setting up the idea that Gary will kill Fox. In reality, it's a no-win situation. Either Gary doesn't do it and it's a cop-out, or he does and it destroys the character of Gary. The reason I'm not gonna give the show crap for this the way I did Cassandra's surprise heel-turn is based on who delivered the message. While I am alarmed by the message because this seems fully like something the series would actually go through with and not cop-out about, because it's Invictus telling Ash to get her to do what she wants, I don't take it at face value. Gary was fated to die a hundred times over and beat that prophecy. There's a chance even if he is forced to kill Fox, he can figure out a way to undo it. And I suspect Invictus knows that, and would decline to share that with Ash to keep her on her side. Invictus' description of Gary as a champion who has saved no-one is surprisingly apt and accurate, without Invictus ever once acknowledging Gary's good intentions or what he's sacrificed for his friends. It reminds me of what Cordelia said about Angelus on Angel (before Joss Whedon COMPLETELY destroyed her character out of spite). Angelus pushes buttons by telling people the truth and secrets that will make them second-guess themselves or make them paranoid about their friends. The way she put it is, "He lies with the truth." Is it possible Invictus herself puts Gary in the position where he has to choose between saving Fox's life and defeating Invictus and the Lord Commander once and for all? Invictus could very well spin Gary being forced to make that choice as him murdering her brother. But if it's Invictus doing the murdering it's not actually Gary's fault or choice. That is what I suspect MIGHT be explored. And Avacato tells me that even if the worst happens, the show LOVES defying dark destinies and predictions. Gary might figure a way out of it anyways.

What would be an open question in my mind is how far that would turn Ash against Gary before he could fix things. Would she merely despise him and be a reluctant ally to him for the greater good, while believing deep down, he'll NEVER be able to undo Fox's death? Or will she be foolish and spiteful enough to fully blame Gary and run right into Invictus's arms for being right on a technicality? I mentioned I was not willing to completely give up on the series after hearing this idea. The fact that the second thing is the most likely outcome is the reason I also refuse to say, "The creators got this and I trust them fully." It's not automatically going to destroy the show the way making Cassandra evil did. But. BUT... It's SUCH a risky notion, that it IS possible that it WILL ruin the show if handled improperly. It's a tightrope, and I don't have enough information on Olan Rogers' capabilities of navigating storytelling tightropes after only two and a half seasons. I assume we'll find out soon enough. If not, I hope the series is renewed.

Tribor's stuff continues to disturb me. His martyr complex is really making me nervous, and while he is described as a leader and a savior, none of his actions (including torturing his captives) were remotely noble or done by someone I would trust to do the right thing in a pinch. You want to talk about unlikely heel-turns? Tribor is our best bet. And unlike Cassandra, episodes like this mean it will have been fully set up properly.

So that was interesting. I'll give that four stars for the brilliant Hue stuff, with an option to lower the grade in the future if the Ash stuff it sets up turns out to be the disaster it could be. ****.

 

[Perla Magica]

Last two episodes of this season will air on Sundays

 

[SweetShop209]

Olan Rogers said in this tweet about how Adult Swim doesn't make the show. They just market and premiere it.

 

[Fone Bone]

Olan Rogers said in this tweet about how Adult Swim doesn't make the show. They just market and premiere it.

It's weird everybody in this thread gives Adult Swim times for the show. I watch the premieres Monday on TBS after American Dad. It's actually a decent time slot.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "The Chamber Of Doubt"

I have mostly good things to say about this week. Not entirely good, but I am more satisfied where things are headed than I was last week.

Probably because the threat of Gary killing Fox was immediately addressed. He did and he didn't. Fox was already dead. And let me just say I don't take that at face value either. While Bolo confirmed that WAS Fox's body inhabited by Invictus, I also don't believe this death is permanent. Time travel, reanimation, I'm not sure what. I believe this can be repaired.

Also very interested that as of now, Ash hasn't gone off the deep end yet. She blames Gary (understandably) but she certainly isn't on Team Invictus quite yet, especially because it's clear he orchestrated this whole thing. Which kind of disappoints me a bit on some level. If Invictus hadn't had such a big hand in it I'd worry a lot more about Ash's loyalties. The problem now is because Invictus was so dishonest about his level of culpability, that if Ash DOES ever decide to join him, I'll think she's stupid. Which will not be great. And which was also a drawback to this idea being broached last week.

I didn't enjoy watching the episode, but knowing this specific thing is not going to be dragged out and teased for seasons on end puts me in a better place than last week did. Even with Fox apparently dead. With that specific threat already fulfilled I think the heroes can finally go about fixing it. The Lord Commander came back, after all. I hope I'm right. ***1/2.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "Forgiveness"

That was very interesting and didn't go the way I expected it to go.

I think the thing I love was that Avocato's confession to Gary was meant to make Gary feel better about his sin. Instead, Gary is enraged at Avacato. I love that. I love that Gary doesn't solace in that at all and is pissed for the right reasons.

I also very much enjoyed Avocato telling him not to forgive him. To be blunt I agree with him saying that. Gary forgiving him is more than he deserves.

I also love that Gary is done pretending calling Avocato a coward is remotely over-the-line. Avocato always throws a tantrum at that and Gary calling b.s. on that was long overdue.

I like that Gary has gotten to the point where he can legit take on Avocato in a fight.

My complaint remains Kevin. What an annoying character. He ruined the somber mood of the funeral for me. He is even worse for the drama of this show than Bender was for Futurama. Which is a statement.

Evra is a fun character. I hope she returns.

I feel much better about Ash after this episode too. The ending was very bittersweet. ****.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "Hyper-Transdimensional Bridge Rising"

Clarence is not an ideal character to redeem, because he was responsible for so much pain and suffering. And yet, giving him the sacrifice to save Ash and her friends does it. What's especially tragic about the sacrifice is that it's essentially for nothing. He has no way of knowing it, but Gary and friends are staying in Final Space to kill all the Titans. Is Bolo on that list? I'm thinking he maybe shouldn't be definitely taken off it.

Kevins were design to kill Titans? How? By annoying them to death? Actually, that's plausible.

Tribor continues to be the most alarming character to me on the show. Littlecato seems impressed, but I'm disturbed by the things he says and does.

The opening scene was fantastic. The rest of the episode was great too, but it was literally the best scene, so I could truthfully say it was all downhill from there and not be lying. The Lord Commander does NOT like the new status quo with Invictus. Frankly, I'm dying to get back to them both.

Good stuff per usual. The season has made several questionable decisions, and has so far navigated them all well. Will that keep up? Will the show get another season? I hope the answer to both questions is "Yes". ****.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "Until The Sky Falls"

Part of me actually knew you couldn't ever depend on an army of Kevin robots.

Interesting week nevertheless. I'm dying to see where things go from here. ****.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "The Dead Speak"

I don't know if I can bring myself to write an in-depth review of that or not. I SHOULD. But I have SO many concerns, part of me doesn't want to voice them out-loud for fear that they are true.

But I'll write as much as I can. It might be a lot, it might not be.

My first and biggest concern is that I think the show being renewed for another season on TBS is VERY unlikely. And I didn't believe that until this week. What changed? I learned Conan ended. I don't know if TBS canceled it, or Conan himself decided to upgrade to a variety show on HBO Max. It doesn't really matter. What it means is this show doesn't have the anchor to TBS it used to. TBS doesn't need to keep Conan O'Brien happy anymore, because outside of this show, he no longer works for them. I can see this show being moved to HBO Max eventually. Shows this great and with this cult of a fanbase rarely go entirely extinct in 2021. But I see a big, worrisome cancellation coming before that, and a probably huge campaign on the fans' behalf. I do not see TBS picking up the show again. I'm also looking around the list of TBS originals and every single one of them was canceled prematurely. TBS likes getting the good reviews from the quirky series it creates. It never supports the creators enough to end those shows on their own terms. If we want to see Olan Rogers's vision for the show come to completion, I'm thinking we are going to have to look past TBS. We probably always were.

The death of Bolo frightens me because it is the exact kind of thing a producer of this kind of show would do for shock value. In the back of my head, I think the show has a plan to find a way to bring Fox back the same way they did Avacato. I think the way Bolo died, and the subtext to how helpless the heroes are compared to him tells me it's permanent, which is a shame because he's a great character and one of my favorite Keith David performances ever. But he's also this show's Dumbledore, and safety hatch, and the heroes have to take the final steps of their journey on their own terms.

David Tennant's turn as the Lord Commander is truly frightening and unlike any other performance he's ever delivered, live-action or animated.

I'm worried about Ash's loyalties, but what I like is that Ash is worried about them too. Claudia seems to be getting through to her, but the good news is if the worst happens and Ash switches sides, I think she can probably be brought back. Unless she does something unforgivable like killing Quinn, Avacato, or Littlecato. Which kills me is that knowing how dark this series can get, none of that is out of the question. As a matter of fact, I think her eventually killing Claudia is likely. I like Claudia as a character, but I'm not sure that having Gary's mother fine and dandy on the ship will help his arc.

Let me offer a suggestion for both Gary and Ash. Never, EVER take the Invictus out of the Gary Zombies again. That killed me. And judging by her reaction it did Quinn too.

I like Avacato blaming Quinn for being in this mess, because frankly I do too. Running and hiding from the Titans is not a feasible long term plan, but if they hadn't stayed, I doubt the Lord Commander would have gotten that Titan. Just because I don't think that's how this Universe works. Littlecato describing clues that can come out nowhere of gives me a distinct impression people like him and Gary rationally believe the Universe is lucky and that a part of it is looking out for them. They are fictional characters so that idea is true. I like and relate to that idea a lot. That's how I approach my own writing.

Kevin's reaction to Zombie Gary's death, I have to say, ruined a great deal of the episode for me. I would have given that an easy five stars without it. My suggestion? Next character to kill off is Kevin. And don't bother making it a heroic sacrifice. Make it embarrassing and pointless because that's all he deserves. Gary was right about him all along. He's a monster and a scumbag and I hate every inch of him.

So yeah, I am very worried for the future of this show. And more than I ever have been. ***1/2.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "The Leaving"

I was very happy at how the ending went down. Hear me out. If Ash had NOT convinced Littlecato to go with her when she did, there would be no hope for her. She would be lost to Invictus for good. And let me tell you, as far as reasons for supposed heel-turns go, that was a damn good one. If Littlecato had had the strength to deny her, she never would have trusted him again. Littlecato being present for what happens next with Ash is crucial. He can talk her down. I am less worried about Ash turning him against Avacato and Gary, because he SHOULD be mad at them, and it's something I think I WANT him to navigate. Ash being enraged on his behalf and trying to get him to embrace it is entirely appropriate.

But how did Ash know Littlecato was a Prince? That isn't remotely what Gary and Avacato were talking about.

I have a note, and it's something the show needs to remember. The dark endings in this show resonated in the first two seasons because they were majorly unusual and therefore landed properly. If every episode has a downer ending now, I'm no longer impressed with them, and they bum me out instead. I bring this up because it's been a problem this entire season. I will freely admit this this specific ending felt right. But it would have felt more right and earned if it was unusual.

So that's where I stand about this week. ****.

 

[Leviathan]

Anyone hear anything about a renewal?

Without spoiling anything, if Final Space is cancelled, the last episode is one hell of a point to end on.

 

[Fone Bone]

Final Space "The Devil's Den"

That was a pretty epic and dire ending. It was great, but if that was the series finale, I won't be happy. I will not be doing a thorough deconstruction with that review because I don't know what to think of it. If it's a season finale, it's amazing. If it's a series finale, it sucks. ****.

 

[Leviathan]

A bunch of Time Warner owned shows were confirmed casualties of the AT&T merger. If Final Space was similarly doomed by the impending WarnerMedia/Discovery deal, I won't be surprised.

FS is a show that really struggles to attract attention outside of its fanbase. The last season had some of the best-written episodes of any adult cartoon, yet it wasn't considered worthy of a single Emmy nomination.

 

[Eldorado]

A bunch of Time Warner owned shows were confirmed casualties of the AT&T merger. If Final Space was similarly doomed by the impending WarnerMedia/Discovery deal, I won't be surprised.

FS is a show that really struggles to attract attention outside of its fanbase. The last season had some of the best-written episodes of any adult cartoon, yet it wasn't considered worthy of a single Emmy nomination.

Yeah, but it looks like the new Discovery merger is causing a bunch of shows to be reconstructed in different forms. Like how Metalocalypse/Venture Bros./ATHF is coming back as movies.

Maybe something good for FS will come out of this.

 

[Daikun]

Adult Swim now fully owns Final Space.


I'm just going to move this thread to the Adult Swim board now.