"Elena of Avalor" News and Discussion Thread

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SweetShop209

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I saw the tweet in question, and I'm not surprised. Sofia also took quite a bit of time with its long running story threads, notably in season 4 . I can deal with another waiting game.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
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Elena Of Avalor "Dreamcatcher"

Elena and Isa are headed in the right direction. Unfortunately, Estaban is headed in the wrong one. However, as hurt as he feels at the end, I don't think he's cut out to be evil or hurt his family. I am probably more worried about his expressions and attitude than is warranted simply because when Estaban says at the beginning he comes from a place or manners and not conflict, that's closer to the truth than being angry at rejection.

I think the thing that Elena did wrong was SO completely reject him and his apology, and refusing to hear him out when he offered. And I don't merely say that as someone who doesn't want to see him driven into Ash's arms. What it suggests to ME is that Elena's sentence of exile was never impartial, and it was therefore unjust. I was never comfortable with the idea that the verdict and sentence wasn't unanimous, and that the jury was composed of the people that he hurt. What Elena's behavior throughout the episode told me is that Estaban never had a chance at a fair shake at all. And whether he is redeemed or goes to the dark side, that is still unfair and a failing on Elena's end.

There is good news for the good guys whether or not Estaban is forgiven and comes back into the fold. Last episode I theorized that Ash building Estaban up would blow up in her face when the Elena and him finally reconcile. Ultimately, it was a wrong theory. This episode proves Elena is SO powerful she can take down Ash on her own, and clearly Estaban too. The tension for the rest of the season isn't Ash unwittingly building up Estaban into a force that can be used against herself. If Estaban rejoins the good guys, it would not be to win the final battle for them. It will be to save a member of the family from Ash, probably Isa. I was a little surprised and not surprised at all Estaban wasn't the one to save her this episode. It would have been far too soon. But the reason I was surprised and a little disappointed is because I still think it's coming.

We'll see. This was a good episode, but things are more up in the air than ever. ***1/2.
 

zoombie

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Well playing devil's advocate, I think exile is lean ant compared to locking him up forever or dare I say have him executed, if those are the alternative, exile is not a bad deal.

On tomorrow's episode, please don't tell me Gabe is going to be a sexist all of a sudden.

In regard to Craig's tweet, did anybody ask him if, how, and when they will fill Esteban's job as counselor. Are we going to have an election, I imagine Donna Paluma would run for his seat, I don't know who else.
 
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zoombie

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Changing of the Guard

One of the glaring problems this show will have to deal with since "Magic Within" and Elena's power ups and when the plot calls for it not to be used. Look no forward than today's episode, Elena should have been able to defeat those pirates easily within seconds with her powers. Since the episode is not about that, it conveniently is not used. That is something we just going to have to deal with these non plot episodes.

If you ignore that, it is a fine episode. Glad Gabe wasn't a sexist in this episode. Grandpa might have some issues, but he is from a long ago generation especially since he is older than he looks, I will let that slide this one.
 

Korra_Fan

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However, as hurt as he feels at the end, I don't think he's cut out to be evil or hurt his family. I am probably more worried about his expressions and attitude than is warranted simply because when Estaban says at the beginning he comes from a place or manners and not conflict, that's closer to the truth than being angry at rejection.
Esteban certainly did not strike me as angry at being rejected, just depressed. If there's one thing he's doing right, it's that he clearly understands why Elena would be so angry and unforgiving of him and doesn't blame her for it. He simply accepts it and is ready to move on with his new path that was forced upon him. At the moment, I think he just wants to become powerful enough to betray Ash and Zopilote and then be on his way to seeking a new life for himself somewhere else. The problem is that I still am convinced he is going to become possessed by the darkness he's now willfully choosing to indulge in, and weaponized against his family against his will.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
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Elena Of Avalor "Changing Of The Guard"

Melissa Fumera as an eager young overachiever with a chip on her shoulder and something to prove? Yes please. And I'm betting like Amy Santiago on Brooklyn Nine-Nine, that she's an overbrusher and has 17 cavities.

I love using the word "Persist" in the song. It's really seizing the political moment.

I'm glad Nacho and Rocko washed out. A lesser show would have simply kept them around as future comic foils. In reality, there is no actual need for stupid soldiers. And unlike the shows that came before it this show realizes there never was.

Antonia had an interesting observation that sounds true, but isn't. She said a troop with her in it can't work if she isn't accepted by everyone. That is actually not true. Historically, black U.S. soldiers were NOT accepted in the ranks, and things got better because the black soldiers refused to play along, and proved their worth on their own. But while it's true that GOOD armies always have each other's back, it's not automatic, or even seemingly a necessity for many of them. Basically I objected to her saying that because all she's doing is making the boys' lives easier. Which is something they do NOT deserve.

I found the end moment of the little girl's "I want to be just like you" cringey, but I'll allow it because this is a show that actually casts little kids as little kids. Even a supposedly serious show like Young Justice is too cheap and lazy to do that, and has adult women do completely fake-sounding baby voices. This is the selling point of Disney to me. They take the voice casting seriously. Which is good.

Solid episode. ****.
 

zoombie

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King Skylar

Okay I am a little confused with the Jaquins power structure, so they have a king and a chief? So the king has no real power, he is the figure head, the chief has the real power, is that correct?

Well still it was an okay episode. This time the foe has magical powers, so unlike the pirates, Elena can just defeat him easily, so her new magical power ups may not have been an easy solution.
 

SweetShop209

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Wow they actually had the guts to kill off Alacazar. I'm impressed. I do like the episode's message on how you don't have to live up to a legacy to be seen as great.
 

zoombie

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Spirit Of A Wizzard

So they bought back Alacazar, I am surprised they succeeded, I am surprised they succeeded, I knew he was probably going to get offed by the end of the episode, still impressed they got that far.

I am kind of surprised that Esteban is still reluctant to hurt Elena, I thought after his last appearance he sealed off all emotional attachment and ready to go full evil. I understand Ash' frustration with him, ma ke full commitment to one side or another, you can't half way it, you will never succeed that way.

I don't know who these allies that Ash mention are, Chanta got to be one of them, which excites me. I just hope please oh please no Shreki, I have had enough of her, she had her moment in the sun, it is time to move on. And what I liked about Ash she was not subservient to Shreki like all the other villains, I respected her for that, so that would really let me down if she is another one of those Shreki fan girls, Ash don't betray me.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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Elena Of Avalor "King Skylar"

I'm trying to figure out the Jaquin hierarchy. The black cat is the King, but Skylar will be someday. The grumpy gray lady is the head of the Jaquin Guard, and Miggs is currently chief. Do I have all that right?

This was a fun episode. ***1/2.

Elena Of Avalor "Spirit Of A Wizard"

You know Estaban, you keep straddling the fence like that, you are going to get splinters in your tuckus.

I have gone back and forth over how the most interesting character on the show's arc will wind up. Two Estaban episodes ago I was sure Ash was foolishly building him into a tool that would turn on her and help Elena defeat her. The last Estaban episode made me seriously rethink that. Simply because the level of Elena's power seemed so vast that I doubted that girl needs a last minute save from Estaban.

I'm back to my original opinion if partly because Ash and Estaban have gotten very powerful in so short amount of time. Another big clue is that Estaban protected Elena without thinking. It was a reflex. I don't think Elena noticed or appreciated it when it was happening, but he was so blatant about it, Ash chided him out-loud. If Elena missed that, that's not good. I'm not saying she should forgive him. But she should be thinking of him as Ash's weak link after that. Because he is.

But the biggest thing that turned me back to my initial opinion is that Ash seems to be assembling a rogues gallery to finally take down Elena. Now his arc is 100% clear to me, in a way it wasn't when he was asked to betray two people he barely knew or cared about on behalf of Elena. But a group of villains? They are going to depend on him. He will feel actual responsibility for them. And I think it would be absolutely appropriate for his arc if he betrayed the bad guys in the name of his family, instead of the other way around. A group of people makes any treachery seem like a MUCH grander gesture, and the symmetry of both betrayals would be amazing. Estaban is kind of a weasel. Don't you think it's about time he used that specific gift on behalf of people he actually cares about?

I don't think any better of Estaban this episode, or think he's making good decisions. What has convinced me he will be redeemed is that as of this episode, it would be the best thing for his arc and this show. And this is not a show that shies away from giving the audience what it ultimately wants and needs. It's not because he deserves Elena's forgiveness. It's that the forgiveness would probably be the healthiest thing for Elena. And maybe that's all it boils down to in the end, and maybe that's all it ever boiled down.

I'm watching you Estaban. Maybe if you were less interesting, I wouldn't bother, but I see you very well. And you are not cut out for the villain stuff. Not at all. ****1/2.
 

Korra_Fan

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It's not because he deserves Elena's forgiveness. It's that the forgiveness would probably be the healthiest thing for Elena. And maybe that's all it boils down to in the end, and maybe that's all it ever boiled down.
Exactly. It has been said that Elena's final battle will be "a test", to determine if she is truly worthy of the crown. Just defeating some bad guy wouldn't be such a test, otherwise defeating Shuriki really would have been enough like Elena had thought it was. She has to prove the capacity to let go of her negative personal feelings for the good of all, including herself. Does Esteban deserve forgiveness? Probably not. But forgiving him will probably be what saves Avalor in the end, and so Elena has to do it. I also hope that in the end, Esteban's redemption will also have him leaving his family to go do good somewhere else, since I think it would be a cheat to have him end up as royal chancellor again and everything being as it was. Assuming he even survives his redemption, that is. Hey, after the show had the balls to kill Alacazar on-screen, we can't rule anything else out!
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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Exactly. It has been said that Elena's final battle will be "a test", to determine if she is truly worthy of the crown. Just defeating some bad guy wouldn't be such a test, otherwise defeating Shuriki really would have been enough like Elena had thought it was. She has to prove the capacity to let go of her negative personal feelings for the good of all, including herself. Does Esteban deserve forgiveness? Probably not. But forgiving him will probably be what saves Avalor in the end, and so Elena has to do it.
I don't think she HAS to. I think she will choose to. And that will make all the difference.
 

zoombie

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since I think it would be a cheat to have him end up as royal chancellor again and everything being as it was.
Speaking of, a question no one has answered, what will they do with the royal chancellor position, as we saw in an earlier episode, Elena is exhausted doing all of Esteban's work, so that position needs to be filled, how, will Elena appoint someone or will we have an election, which I am hoping, I love a good election episode. I know Donna Paluma would win and that already would make the episode entertaining. Power to the people, time to vote.

As for Esteban redemption, him going somewhere else to find redemption. I have this idea, inspired by the proposed Gargoyles spinoff that never happened except in a comics, a redemption squad of reformed of Sofia and Elena villains. The main characters being Esteban and Prisma. I know it would never happen, that would be cool.

Who would be on that team, probably more Sofia characters, Sofia did redeem villains than Elena.
 
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zoombie

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So we going have this villain group, which means probably be a enemy each for the good guys to fight themselves. We know Elena is going to get Esteban. But that leaves Ash and the rest of group as possible opponents for Elena's ally.

I am positive, it is obvious that Carla going to play a role in Ash's defeat. Probably not one on one, I don't think that makes sense Ash could defeat Ash by herself. Funny that Grey Griffen is voicing Ash, but this situation of arguably her most villain character Azula, it took two people to defeat Azula, and I think it is going to be similar with Ash. Depending on what they do with Carla's character arc, my guess is either Mateo or Naomi. Mateo is a wizard makes sense for a matchup point, unless a more powerful magic user is another one of the villains. Maybe Naomi just in terms of character comparisons, her family is the complete Delgados. And i do think she would be the most resistant to giving Carla a chance. If we go back to the final Azula fight, she be the Katara of the equation. As for Gabe, maybe he could be someone of all Elena's that Ash just under estimate the most. Though I think it would make more sense for Gabe and Naomi to team up against an enemy. Anyway another similarity to that Zuko and Azula battle, is having stakes, this case being Ash agrees if she is defeated, she will un stone Victor.

Another question is we going to get an opponent for Isabel, we going to let her fight? The only match ups that would work for her is to fight someone her size, a villain her own age or a midget, or a mad scientist and / or a tactician. I really doubt this show would have a child villain, unless we redeem them, but I doubt we can do that introducing a character this late in the game. So I am thinking if Isabel has a battle, won't be a physical battle, but a battle of wits with someone very intelligent who has no physical ability to fight. Isabel she is very smart, she could be an inventor or a general depending on what field she pursues.
 

SweetShop209

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I checked my schedule. Starting November 12, TOTS takes up the show's 12:30 pm timeslot. I'm guessing only new episodes will air now, with possibly some reruns but not regularly .
 

SweetShop209

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Here's a sneak peek of tomorrow's episode.


The Elena Of Avalor episode "Changing Of The Guard" was nominated for a Humanitas Award.
 
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zoombie

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Team Isa

Great to see Isabel get some spotlight here. And we get a junior team here, even brought back Olivia, I forgot all about her. Great to see her back.

While I am not crazy about children fighting dangerous villains, we got pushed to a corner that we had no choice to rely on Isabel and friends.

This episode answered a question of mine.

So we going have this villain group, which means probably be a enemy each for the good guys to fight themselves.
Another question is we going to get an opponent for Isabel, we going to let her fight? The only match ups that would work for her is to fight someone her size, a villain her own age or a midget, or a mad scientist and / or a tactician. I really doubt this show would have a child villain, unless we redeem them, but I doubt we can do that introducing a character this late in the game. So I am thinking if Isabel has a battle, won't be a physical battle, but a battle of wits with someone very intelligent who has no physical ability to fight. Isabel she is very smart, she could be an inventor or a general depending on what field she pursues.
If there is going to be a opponent for Isabel, than Tito is probably the person to join Ash's villain team as someone for Isabel to fight. This episode establish him as a Isabel villain. Though I would prefer a mad scientist to challenge Isabel that way, it probably doesn't make sense for Ash's villain team which is all about dark magic to be involved with science. Tito will do.
 

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