Editorial: Are Toonami Originals Cursed?

wonderfly

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From the front page of AnimeSuperhero.com:

"Editorial: Are Toonami Originals Cursed?"​


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"It is safe to say that the American anime fandom would not be the large subculture that is, if not for Toonami and Adult Swim. Dragonball Z and Naruto are pop cultural touchstones because of their Toonami airings. Toonami is such a strong brand name that expectations of anything with this brand name attached are usually really high. The announcement of Toonami co-producing anime in 2018, starting with sequels to the iconic classic that is FLCL, got fans excited and nervous about the idea of creating a sequel that many people didn’t feel was necessary. Needless to say, the Toonami originals project has been extremally controversial.

How controversial? There have been seven titles released since the start of the Toonami originals line (ten if you count the four FLCL sequels as separate series): We have the FLCL sequels, Fena Pirate Princess, Blade Runner: Black Lotus, Shenmue: The Animation, Housing Complex C, and Ninja Kamui. Of those seven titles, only one scored above a 7 on MyAnimeList (Fena Pirate Princess barely scraping it at a 7.07). Professional review sites like Anime News Network have been even less kind to these series than general audiences, seemingly eviscerating these titles with glee whenever they come out. Despite critics and audiences hating these series, Toonami continues to keep pumping them out with Lazarus and Uzumaki coming up and rumors of a possible adaptation of the Rooster Fighter manga (Rick and Morty: The Anime’s dub is set to debut on one of Adult Swim’s comedy nights, making it not a Toonami original by technicality only. For the purposes of this article, it will definitely be treated as a Toonami original). Is there hope for a Toonami original to break the curse, or will Toonami call it quits on originals? Let’s explore those topics."

Read the full editorial here.
 

Conttactt

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The bottom line is the west should not be involved in the production of anime. The west has already throughly ruined their own animation, and the way Demarco acts with the originals is the exact kind of behavior that caused western animation to fall off.

Since Toonami seems dead set on making these projects, quality should have been prioritized over quantity. They clearly do not have the budget needed to fund a ton of anime as evidenced by last years pathetic 3 episode FLCL seasons. If they made half as many projects and doubled the budget of the remaining ones, we might not be looking at 6 of the 7 so far being flops.

On the topic of the singular success, Ninja Kamui wasn’t perfect, but a step in the right direction. Imagine if you will, had this show had a little more budget and didn’t need to heavily rely on the CGI suits. Those first episodes 2d action scenes were crazy. And those are what got people hooked on the show.

Looking ahead, Uzumaki is really gonna struggle, purely due to its short length and 5 years of delays. It’s likely nothing that airs can hope to live up to people expectations that were unintentionally made sky high. Lazarus we don’t know enough about yet, but the few tiny snippets we have seen show it’s at least in 2d, so that’s a start.
 

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Kinda impressive how many swings and misses they've had over the years. Hell, you could go back even further and add things like the second season of Big O to the list, lol.

At any rate, Uzumaki looks like it has potential. Hopefully it lives up to the trailer because if that one turns out to be another dud, they need to throw in the towel.
 

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As mush as I love Toonami, when it come to them making their own original shows, for what I've heard, they're not that great.

Hopefully Uzumaki do blow us away, but if they keep continue going on this mediocre cycle of paycheck original anime, then yeah, they need to throw in the towel.
 

Santana434

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I really love toonami, and while them making their Original shows isn’t a bad idea. While they have interesting premises/ideas, I felt like one thing is lacking was their execution or not reaching their potential for them or in this case went off the rails after a few episodes like Fena Pirate princess or Ninja Kamui for example. IGPX is probably the only toonami original in general I enjoyed so far and reached its potential, now I wouldn’t say the show was perfect, but it’s one of toonami’s better originals in my book so far and the best original series they have . Hopefully Uzumaki will turn out great, because if it doesn’t… toonami might as well stopped making originals if they kept flopping like that and wasting money on them. Hell, even tho Jetix discontinued years ago, they had much stronger original series compared to toonami’s originals sadly(I know I know I shouldn’t compare toonami to jetix) but take this into consideration.
 
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I am going to say something that falls between controversial and sacriligeous.

Toonami should stop focusing on anime.

Now, I'm not saying they should stop airing anime at all- I'm not completely insane- but between the lack of options due to Crunchyroll's anime monopoly and increased competition from Disney/Hulu, AND Toonami's originals and Western-anime coproductions in general being... not good (the latter of which is something touched on in the article), it's clear that the anime focus isn't propelling Toonami forward like in the good old days, but rather holding them back.

People tend to overlook this- even the people in charge- but Toonami wasn't originally an anime block. It was anime-heavy, sure, but it was an action block first and foremost. Throughout the Moltar, TOM 1, and TOM 2 eras, Toonami's "golden age" IMO, anime like Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, and Gundam shared the airwaves with DCAU shows like Batman and Superman, classics like ThunderCats and the Cartoon Roulette, Canadian CG series Reboot and (for one week only) Beast Wars, and even the Cartoon Cartoon series The Powerpuff Girls. Can you imagine something like Midnight Run: Special Edition, a whole night of not anime, but MUSIC VIDEOS, from the likes of Daft Punk and the Gorillaz, happening today?

To finish off, I want to point out that the only first-run Toonami series in this modern "Toonami originals" phase that people actually like is My Adventures of Superman, which aired premieres on Toonami for its second season. It's also the only first-run in this phase that's not an anime coproduction. Coincidence? You be the judge.
 

Conttactt

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I am going to say something that falls between controversial and sacriligeous.

Toonami should stop focusing on anime.

Now, I'm not saying they should stop airing anime at all- I'm not completely insane- but between the lack of options due to Crunchyroll's anime monopoly and increased competition from Disney/Hulu, AND Toonami's originals and Western-anime coproductions in general being... not good (the latter of which is something touched on in the article), it's clear that the anime focus isn't propelling Toonami forward like in the good old days, but rather holding them back.

People tend to overlook this- even the people in charge- but Toonami wasn't originally an anime block. It was anime-heavy, sure, but it was an action block first and foremost. Throughout the Moltar, TOM 1, and TOM 2 eras, Toonami's "golden age" IMO, anime like Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, and Gundam shared the airwaves with DCAU shows like Batman and Superman, classics like ThunderCats and the Cartoon Roulette, Canadian CG series Reboot and (for one week only) Beast Wars, and even the Cartoon Cartoon series The Powerpuff Girls. Can you imagine something like Midnight Run: Special Edition, a whole night of not anime, but MUSIC VIDEOS, from the likes of Daft Punk and the Gorillaz, happening today?

To finish off, I want to point out that the only first-run Toonami series in this modern "Toonami originals" phase that people actually like is My Adventures of Superman, which aired premieres on Toonami for its second season. It's also the only first-run in this phase that's not an anime coproduction. Coincidence? You be the judge.
Whether Demarco likes it or not, the majority of the audience is here for anime and nothing else. Yes, the block used to be a mixture, but what shows put Toonami on the map? DBZ, Sailor Moon, Gundam, etc. The anime is what people have always wanted, and if they start to turn away from that, what little audience is left will fade away. The anime originals are sucking, but the obvious solution to that is to just stop making anime originals, not stop chasing anime licenses.

What’s the difference between MAWS and the other originals? Easy. It’s not an original. Demarco had zero involvement in its production.

And on the topic of MAWS, it’s desperately mimicking anime at every turn. Sure, it’s western, but it’s copying every beat from anime that it can.
 

Yojimbo

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Whether Demarco likes it or not, the majority of the audience is here for anime and nothing else. Yes, the block used to be a mixture, but what shows put Toonami on the map? DBZ, Sailor Moon, Gundam, etc. The anime is what people have always wanted, and if they start to turn away from that, what little audience is left will fade away. The anime originals are sucking, but the obvious solution to that is to just stop making anime originals, not stop chasing anime licenses.
Yeah, but they also have to make their studio overlords happy, too, and compromise which is to create content that can be used on the streaming service(s).

And on the topic of MAWS, it’s desperately mimicking anime at every turn. Sure, it’s western, but it’s copying every beat from anime that it can.
Uh, yeah. That's no secret. The showrunners have said in interviews they took inspiration from a lot of anime, because they grew up watching anime among other things.
 

J'onn J'onzz

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What exactly should they air if not anime? Even though DC animation is under the same corporate umbrella, they’ve not proved willing to share. People used to request Young Justice all the time. I think that would be fun to air, since I never saw the Max seasons. DC just doesn’t seem willing to let it air on Toonami. Usually DC shows and movies only pop up during a marathon to promote something like Fandome or Batman Day, and we haven’t even had any of that in a couple of years.

Not to copy a Conttact talking point, but they really need to familiarize themselves with the Sentai library. In November, they will have three opening slots to fill, and they probably burned through most of the budget for the year between Demon Slayer and Rewind. It’s time to license some short anime they can air cheap until the new year budget comes.
 

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Even though DC animation is under the same corporate umbrella, they’ve not proved willing to share. People used to request Young Justice all the time. I think that would be fun to air, since I never saw the Max seasons. DC just doesn’t seem willing to let it air on Toonami.
Because WBD is a broken company where everybody hates each other, I know, I know. Just because it SHOULD happen doesn't mean it WILL happen.
Not to copy a Conttact talking point, but they really need to familiarize themselves with the Sentai library. In November, they will have three opening slots to fill, and they probably burned through most of the budget for the year between Demon Slayer and Rewind. It’s time to license some short anime they can air cheap until the new year budget comes.
IDK, looking through Sentai's catalog, most of their library is either the really niche type whose titles are really wordy and unweildy OR the really sexually charged, borderline prisonbait type where everyone is a scantily clad female of vague age. Or older content that's a bit too old to be a proper headliner, though at least a decade behind is okay if One Piece is any indication.
 

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I forget how graphic Ushio and Tora was but maybe that would have been a perfect fit on Toonami though it's probably 10 years old by now. Though I recall reading it's no longer in Crunchyroll jail. Hmm.
 

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I was thinking that Primal was huge and if Genndy didn't hate Toonami, it could have been the biggest Toonami Original. Samurai Jack season 5 was a Toonami Original and Genndy fumed at the show premiering there. My Adventures with Superman was originally intended to be a Cartoon Network show, so it doesn't exactly count as a Toonami original. The main issue is that Western Adult Swim cartoons have historically been so predominately comedy that it seems like only Genndy shows (on regular Adult Swim first, then rerunning on Toonami as Genndy shows are barred from premiering) and Cartoon Network's unwanted babies are the only Western action toons we get.

One thing I do see from Toonami forums is the interesting what if in that what if someone other than Jason Demarco produced these originals. Guy was brilliant at his old job as Toonami showrunner, but it does feel like everything with his name as Executive Producer turns out mediocre at best. He's been pretty hands-off, but he can be blamed for greenlighting awful ideas like the FLCL sequels and Rick and Morty the Anime. Don't know if replacing Demarco is the answer as someone else could screw up just as badly.
 

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I was thinking that Primal was huge and if Genndy didn't hate Toonami, it could have been the biggest Toonami Original. Samurai Jack season 5 was a Toonami Original and Genndy fumed at the show premiering there. My Adventures with Superman was originally intended to be a Cartoon Network show, so it doesn't exactly count as a Toonami original. The main issue is that Western Adult Swim cartoons have historically been so predominately comedy that it seems like only Genndy shows (on regular Adult Swim first, then rerunning on Toonami as Genndy shows are barred from premiering) and Cartoon Network's unwanted babies are the only Western action toons we get.

One thing I do see from Toonami forums is the interesting what if in that what if someone other than Jason Demarco produced these originals. Guy was brilliant at his old job as Toonami showrunner, but it does feel like everything with his name as Executive Producer turns out mediocre at best. He's been pretty hands-off, but he can be blamed for greenlighting awful ideas like the FLCL sequels and Rick and Morty the Anime. Don't know if replacing Demarco is the answer as someone else could screw up just as badly.
As arrogant and rude he can be, Toonami is Jason De Marco's baby and I dont see it continuining if he is replaced.
 

PicardMan

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As arrogant and rude he can be, Toonami is Jason De Marco's baby and I dont see it continuining if he is replaced.

Gill Austen replaced Demarco as the Toonami showrunner now that Demarco is the Executive Producer for Warner's original anime (not just Toonami, he also did Suicide Squad Isekai and upcoming Lord of the Rings "anime"). It seems like Toonami's acquisitions have been not as good since Gill Austen took over, so maybe Demarco and Austen should switch jobs?

I did find out something very interesting. The megahit Solo Leveling was actually a Crunchyroll co-production. They are still doing coproductions, just phasing out the "Crunchyroll Originals" branding. It does seem like Western co-productions go down better when the marketing obfuscates or de-emphasizes it's status as a Western co-production. Toonami can't really pretend their originals aren't originals like Crunchyroll can, so that won't work for them.
 

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Gill Austen replaced Demarco as the Toonami showrunner now that Demarco is the Executive Producer for Warner's original anime (not just Toonami, he also did Suicide Squad Isekai and upcoming Lord of the Rings "anime"). It seems like Toonami's acquisitions have been not as good since Gill Austen took over, so maybe Demarco and Austen should switch jobs?

I did find out something very interesting. The megahit Solo Leveling was actually a Crunchyroll co-production. They are still doing coproductions, just phasing out the "Crunchyroll Originals" branding. It does seem like Western co-productions go down better when the marketing obfuscates or de-emphasizes it's status as a Western co-production. Toonami can't really pretend their originals aren't originals like Crunchyroll can, so that won't work for them.

Hmm, so okay then, so if Gill Austen steps down.....does Toonami continue?

If the Tooami Originals are a failure, and they stop making more after Uzumaki.....is the instant we see no more Toonami originals being produced the sign that the block in set to end?
 

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Hmm, so okay then, so if Gill Austen steps down.....does Toonami continue?

If the Tooami Originals are a failure, and they stop making more after Uzumaki.....is the instant we see no more Toonami originals being produced the sign that the block in set to end?

Demarco is my vote of best Toonami showrunner between the three Adult Swim Action/Toonami showrunners (Kim Manning, Jason Demarco, Gill Austen). Having Demarco back as showrunner would probably bring vitality back to the block.

Toonami can exist without originals. People are here for Demon Slayer and MHA, not Rick and Morty the Anime and FLCL sequels. If Toonami stops making originals, they could allocate more funds to get Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, SpyXFamily, Kaiju No. 8, and the like. Crunchyroll titles are out of their price range right now, but without those originals eating up money, it might be possible expensive Crunchyroll titles could be affordable. Even those lesser-known titles like Ushio and Tora would be preferred over originals. Toonami going back to its roots of focusing on AAA shonen, quitting originals, and bringing Demarco back as showrunner would be the ideal situation.

Another possibility, Kim Manning as Executive Producer for Toonami originals. Really, considering how Manning's tenure as ASA showrunner was known for artsy, weird, and dialogue heavy stuff, this would be a huge risk. Her tenure as ASA showrunner is pretty controversial, so that's why I have pause on this idea.
 

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Toonami can exist without originals. People are here for Demon Slayer and MHA, not Rick and Morty the Anime and FLCL sequels. If Toonami stops making originals, they could allocate more funds to get Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, SpyXFamily, Kaiju No. 8, and the like. Crunchyroll titles are out of their price range right now, but without those originals eating up money, it might be possible expensive Crunchyroll titles could be affordable. Even those lesser-known titles like Ushio and Tora would be preferred over originals. Toonami going back to its roots of focusing on AAA shonen, quitting originals, and bringing Demarco back as showrunner would be the ideal situation.


"Going back to it's roots" for me would involve Toonami doing a better mixture of Western animation and Anime.

Like in 2000, the days of Toonami airing Batman and Superman the Animated Series alongside Dragon Ball Z and Gundam Wing.

Or perhaps the better example is 2013, when Toonami was airing Star Wars the Clone Wars and Samurai Jack alongside Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood and Bleach.

For the Toonami originals, maybe they should stop trying to make "Western Anime's" and instead make.....Western Action cartoons? And not all tied to DC.

I think you're on to something with "Primal" should've been a Toonami original.
 

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Yeah, but they also have to make their studio overlords happy, too, and compromise which is to create content that can be used on the streaming service(s).
Does flop after flop make them happy? Yea, they are making them content. But it’s content everyone hates.
IDK, looking through Sentai's catalog, most of their library is either the really niche type whose titles are really wordy and unweildy OR the really sexually charged, borderline prisonbait type where everyone is a scantily clad female of vague age. Or older content that's a bit too old to be a proper headliner, though at least a decade behind is okay if One Piece is any indication.
You didn’t look very hard then because their catalog has plenty of stuff that’s action oriented and somewhat popular. Not shonen jump level popular, but good enough. And so what if a show is fanservice heavy? This is a midnight block, people want to see midnight tier content.

We are in a scenario where the options are Sentai or nothing at all. It made sense to look away from Sentai when Funimation was on the table, but now they aren’t. And as you say, “it’s too old” doesn’t work when one of our only premiers are 10 year old OP episodes. There are plenty of 10 year old shows in the Sentai catalog that would be a great fit.
For the Toonami originals, maybe they should stop trying to make "Western Anime's" and instead make.....Western Action cartoons? And not all tied to DC.
The problem with that is the west is incapable of making a decent product if it isn’t directly tied to DC or Marvel, and even then it’s a coin toss. Which is why a lot of us just want to see them stop making content all together and just go back to airing licensed shows.

But, I suppose you will possibly get your wish in a few months, since Invincible Fight Girl will likely premier on Toonami. It’s technically not an original, another port over from CN, but it should be a good example for why western content isn’t the answer
 

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The problem with that is the west is incapable of making a decent product if it isn’t directly tied to DC or Marvel, and even then it’s a coin toss.

Well, there's also Invincible, but it is obvious that this recent wave of American adult action cartoons are mostly superhero or video game based (in the case of Arcane). Genndy is a major exception, but he hates Toonami. DC doesn't seem cooperative with Toonami, Genndy's hates Toonami, and that doesn't leave many options for Western adult action cartoons. Lately, we've been getting kids action cartoons Cartoon Network didn't want, and it seems like crappy originals and Cartoon Network rejects are going to the block's bread and butter from now on.
 

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We are in a scenario where the options are Sentai or nothing at all. It made sense to look away from Sentai when Funimation was on the table, but now they aren’t. And as you say, “it’s too old” doesn’t work when one of our only premiers are 10 year old OP episodes. There are plenty of 10 year old shows in the Sentai catalog that would be a great fit.

I think I argued for Highschool of the Dead in the general discussion thread almost a decade ago. It's sleazy, sure, but it's entertaining and fits the spirit of some of the darker titles we've gotten on the revival such as Deadman Wonderland and Hellsing Ultimate.

(It's also editable as there are few instances of actual nudity, just a lot of up-skirts.)

The problem with a lot of these Toonami originals is they don't capture the spirit of Toonami, past or present, or AS. They're just odd.
 

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