Does this currently feel like 2004 or 2009 to anyone else here?

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When pigs fly.
That’s not how it works, a merger has no affect neither Vinshu or Miller, they still going to remain the same position as they were before. The so-called excuse for the merger was to acquire nearly everything that Time Warner owns including this.


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Perhaps but once AT&T realizes how their business practices havent made CN any profit whatsoever, its just a matter of time until they're fired and the netwoprk will undergo a massive change
 

Red Arrow

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When pigs fly.
That’s not how it works, a merger has no affect neither Vinshu or Miller, they still going to remain the same position as they were before. The so-called excuse for the merger was to acquire nearly everything that Time Warner owns including this.


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Often when one company buys another, random people get fired (or are asked to find another job) and new people get their jobs. Obviously because the new owner knows these new people and couldn't care less about the people getting fired.
 

NeoplanDan

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Often when one company buys another, random people get fired (or are asked to find another job) and new people get their jobs. Obviously because the new owner knows these new people and couldn't care less about the people getting fired.
It depends, but its not always a mandatory to do so, some stay and some don't, I mean when AOL who previously acquired Time Warner, I don't recall anyone being replaced by anyone except for Betty Cohen, who left in 2001.

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It depends, but its not always a mandatory to do so, some stay and some don't, I mean when AOL who previously acquired Time Warner, I don't recall anyone being replaced by anyone except for Betty Cohen, who left in 2001.

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Though Betty Cohen left on her own decision, its still more likely that the current staff could be fired due to how they've caused the network to have lower ratings than theyve ever had beforel. i doubt AT&T has any reason to keep them around
 

NeoplanDan

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Though Betty Cohen left on her own decision, its still more likely that the current staff could be fired due to how they've caused the network to have lower ratings than theyve ever had beforel. i doubt AT&T has any reason to keep them around
Although it had nothing to do with Miller since she's the network president, as most of the low ratings were only contributed to people getting rid of cable in favor on streaming through the app and through streaming devices.

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Although it had nothing to do with Miller since she's the network president, as most of the low ratings were only contributed to people getting rid of cable in favor on streaming through the app and through streaming devices.

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cord cutting isnt an excuse for whats happened as miller and the current bussiness practices are alienating viewers of cn
 

Ayush Chandra

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Another random thought: Over the next year or two, with all these main/popular shows ending (Adventure Time, Gumball, Steven Universe, Teen Titans Go?!?) or having already ended (Regular Show, Clarence, Uncle Grandpa)...it feels like we're on the verge of a major programming line-up shift for the network.

And also, we really don't know what show is going to be the breakout hit for the network for the next wave (aka the next generation's version of "Adventure Time" or "Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends"). It probably hasn't aired yet. "We Bare Bears" isn't going to be that breakthrough hit. The reboots of "Ben 10" and "Powerpuff Girls" aren't it. It's too early to say if "OK KO" is going to be the breakthrough hit.

My question is, does this feel like 2003/2004 (the year/year and a half prior to "Foster's Home" premiered, in August 2004)? That period where Dexter's Lab, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and Time Squad had ended, and Johnny Bravo and Samurai Jack were on the verge of ending? (those shows ended just a few days or weeks after "Foster's" premiere).

Or does it feel like 2008/2009 (the two years prior to Adventure Time premiering in early 2010)? That period where "Codename: Kids Next Door", "Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy", "Camp Lazlo", "Ed,Edd, n Eddy" and "Foster's Home" were all cancelled?

In late 2003, people were starting to wonder: "Where does the network go from here?" And people felt similarly in pretty much all of 2009...

Are we at a similar crossroads for Cartoon Network now?!? Does it suck not knowing what the next big wave of cartoons will be like, or this time, does it feel like there won't be a next, big wave?!?

I stopped watching cartoons shows regularly 7-8 years ago. I may be wrong but I don't remember much popular shows after Ben 10 and Adventure Time. Till 2004-2005, The cartoon network was at its best; those shows and characters were so fascinating.

It feels more like 2008-2009.
 

NeoplanDan

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cord cutting isnt an excuse for whats happened as miller and the current bussiness practices are alienating viewers of cn

I think your explanation on the network is a bit misleading, yeah I understand that from what you’re referring, to what Miller been doing, but however that’s not the only reason why for the network getting low ratings when compared to Nick, who also has ratings that were once the average ratings that CN and Disney used to have, and for you to assume that the current business is alienating viewers is misleading also, who’s they alienating to but us, it’s only doing the favor of trying to get more ratings from its target demographics, regardless of any show, but the way this technology evolves, more younger people are more into online than anything traditional, and that includes young kids, watching content via app, so it’s more of the reasons why for the low ratings, as like what i previously said, the main causes are people switching to streaming and online services that costs less than cable period and AT&T lame reason for wanting to acquire Time Warner was for the content that they had no prior history (if there’s any) or experience and trying to be like how Comcast has when they acquire NBC/Universal And recently Dreamworks, just to make themselves look all big and important, failed to realize that consumers far and wide has mixed feelings about seeing all of the companies trying eating away other companies for the sake of making it less competitive and more cost-ineffective, either way this isn’t stopping cord-cutting for being a thing that everyone would move towards it, it’s like that ever since Netflix went from DVD to online streaming and then came with others alongside. Now getting back with the topic, regardless of what you say for trying to blame Miller or Vinshu, at the end of the day, whether the merger passes through or not, they still will likely stay on their current position unless they decide that their time was up and decide to resign from their position which I can see that as the reason, but other than that, the merger wouldn’t do much as taken over the rights of the content.


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I think your explanation on the network is a bit misleading, yeah I understand that from what you’re referring, to what Miller been doing, but however that’s not the only reason why for the network getting low ratings when compared to Nick, who also has ratings that were once the average ratings that CN and Disney used to have, and for you to assume that the current business is alienating viewers is misleading also, who’s they alienating to but us, it’s only doing the favor of trying to get more ratings from its target demographics, regardless of any show, but the way this technology evolves, more younger people are more into online than anything traditional, and that includes young kids, watching content via app, so it’s more of the reasons why for the low ratings, as like what i previously said, the main causes are people switching to streaming and online services that costs less than cable period and AT&T lame reason for wanting to acquire Time Warner was for the content that they had no prior history (if there’s any) or experience and trying to be like how Comcast has when they acquire NBC/Universal And recently Dreamworks, just to make themselves look all big and important, failed to realize that consumers far and wide has mixed feelings about seeing all of the companies trying eating away other companies for the sake of making it less competitive and more cost-ineffective, either way this isn’t stopping cord-cutting for being a thing that everyone would move towards it, it’s like that ever since Netflix went from DVD to online streaming and then came with others alongside. Now getting back with the topic, regardless of what you say for trying to blame Miller or Vinshu, at the end of the day, whether the merger passes through or not, they still will likely stay on their current position unless they decide that their time was up and decide to resign from their position which I can see that as the reason, but other than that, the merger wouldn’t do much as taken over the rights of the content.


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Execpt CN's desperate attempts for ratings have backfired since they've been trying way to hard to market and pander to the younger audience and completely ignore the audience that grew up with the network e.g. the older audience so no they arent doing anybody any favors. The rate they're going is just gonna end up doing more damage to the network in the long run. I'm not saying that cord cutting isnt one of the reasons. It is definitely a factor but im saying its not a major factor as you make it out to be. The thing is though, even with streaming services on the rise like Netflix and Hulu on the rise, the network was still on top in tv ratings during when it was back in its prime in 2010-2014 and thats because it had VARIETY. there was alot to offer like Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball, and Steven Universe which all did amazing in ratings and merchandise due their creativity and poopularity. So I dont really believe that TV is obsolete just because of streaming present. the problem is how the network is neglecting the audience who use cable. They shouldnt be relying on only their lousy app when there is still a huge audience for TV. TV can still be relevant today the problem is how the execs choose not to utilize it to the best of its abilities. You have to keep in mind that not everyone has access to the internet and the streaming site you use wont always have the show you want to see which will then make you want to buy another service that has the show you need. Lets just say you do find the show you need, how long do you think it'll stay there? The selection they have is sporadic and unpredictable and would remoive shows for unexplained reasons which prompts poeple to buy more streaming sites while one package at a reasonable price saves the hassel. There's so many factors to take in when relying soley on streaming it makes no sense to use it as your only option to watch shows. And im not dissing streaming sites since they are fun to use but to say they will replace TV is a bug stretch. There's still a huge population that has to rely soley on cable to watch your shows so no cord cutting isnt the main reason for the network dying but the exec's asinine decisions and its because of that, they will more likely be fired as AT&T wont have any reason to keep them around and they do have the authority if the current management isnt making them any profit.For the network to thrive, they need to properly utilize both platforms, not kill off one just to move to the next, thats the equivalent to amputation expecting a new arm to grow back. You have to keep in mind that Nick is still a hit in TV ratings despite Netflix's presence so if nick can keep on thriving with its two biggest hits Spongebob and Loud house then CN has no excuse. The more TTG and its other lame reboots infect the network, the more and more the network will wither. CN needs to retore its variety and to do that it needs to actually understand the feedback its been getting. Nick actually is smart enough to finally listen to older fans
 

Spacething7474

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You have to keep in mind that Nick is still a hit in TV ratings despite Netflix's presence so if Nick can keep on thriving with its two biggest hits Spongebob and Loud House then CN has no excuse. The more TTG and its other lame reboots infect the network, the more and more the network will wither. CN needs to retore its variety and to do that it needs to actually understand the feedback its been getting. Nick actually is smart enough to finally listen to older fans
The reason CN spams Teen Titans Go (the other reboots are not spammed, Gumball is instead) is because of high ratings, like every other network does with popular stuff.
Execpt CN's desperate attempts for ratings have backfired since they've been trying way to hard to market and pander to the younger audience and completely ignore the audience that grew up with the network e.g. the older audience so no they arent doing anybody any favors. The rate they're going is just gonna end up doing more damage to the network in the long run. The thing is though, even with streaming services on the rise like Netflix and Hulu on the rise, the network was still on top in TV ratings during when it was back in its prime in 2010-2014 and that's because it had variety. there was a lot to offer like Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball, and Steven Universe which all did amazing in ratings and merchandise due their creativity and popularity.
AT, RS, SU, and TAWOG still get merchandise, just check the CN Shop for proof. Plus, CN aims for the kids of today's generation, not yesterday. And the 2010-2014 ratings weren't beyond amazing.
 
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The reason CN spams Teen Titans Go (the other reboots are not spammed, Gumball is instead) is because of high ratings, like every other network does with popular stuff.

The thing is though, the only reason TTG got high ratings to begin with was because thats all they showed and other shows aired less. They constantly shove it down everyone's throat so of course it has high ratings since people would have no choice but to tune in to that show waiting for gumball or steven universe(if it ever airs again) to come up next. And no other network constantly relies on one show to carry their network regardless of how popular it is and air it over and over again. Other shows need proper attention that deserve it. Variety to your channel is one of the basics of running a network but Miller nor Vishnu understand that.

AT, RS SU and TAWOG still get merchandise, just check the CN shop for proof. Plus, CN aims for the kids of today's generation, not yesterday. And the 2010-2014 ratings weren't beyond amazing.
If you see now, the merch doesnt sell as well as it used to with how CN gives little attention to those shows. a network shouldnt rely one type of audience to carry your network. Its more smarter to appeal to all ages, which CN in its prime(in the 90s, early 2000s, and early 2010s) always prided itself on doing. Them only caring and appealing to current smaller kids and completely ignoring fans who are of an older audience that grew up with the network isnt how to run a network when shows like Adventure Time appealed to all ages and had a lasting impact being a timeless classic which was what made them a huge success. CN needs to learn to actually listen to its audience that grew up with the network that can help provide insight into what they want to help improve the network such as greenlighting Infinity Train or Galactic KND which has been demanded for years now but CN scoffs at and turns away from not just the current gen and give a middle finger to people who grew up with it. They need to take notes from Nick on how to listen to its fans and not just smaller kids. They're actiually reviving things like Hey Arnold and Invader Zim that were loved by many and what fans have asked for a long time.

Also while CN Real ruined the ratings for the channel, the ratings for CN were actually rising when Adventure Time and Regular Show came around. They both were huge successes and practically saved the network. And once Gumball, Steven Universe and We Bare Bears were on their way they actually helped the network improve thanks to its diverse programming so yes 2010-2014 ratings were actually improving
 
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darrensworld

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I think this period definitely marks a "low" period for CN. TV ratings are going down, as the network starts to push for streaming on its website and app. Well, this probably won't affect their quality of content they produce. Lots of promising shows like Craig of the Creek, Unikitty, Summer Camp Island and Mega Man (?) are coming to the network next year, and all CN needs to combat this TTG overkill is to get another series that can bring in the views and attention like TTG (like how Loud House is now a staple in Nick's schedule alongside Spongebob).
 

Toon4Thought

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The thing is though, the only reason TTG got high ratings to begin with was because thats all they showed and other shows aired less. They constantly shove it down everyone's throat so of course it has high ratings since people would have no choice but to tune in to that show waiting for gumball or steven universe(if it ever airs again) to come up next. And no other network constantly relies on one show to carry their network regardless of how popular it is and air it over and over again. Other shows need proper attention that deserve it. Variety to your channel is one of the basics of running a network but Miller nor Vishnu understand that.

That's not quite how it works. If the kids didn't want to watch TTG, they would just change the channel. And what do you mean by "they have no choice"? It's not like they have to watch TV at all.

Besides, the network's increasingly relying on their digital services kind of makes this argument hold a lot less water.
 

Spacething7474

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The thing is though, the only reason TTG got high ratings to begin with was because that's all they showed and other shows aired less. They constantly shove it down everyone's throat so of course it has high ratings since people would have no choice but to tune in to that show waiting for gumball or steven universe(if it ever airs again) to come up next. And no other network constantly relies on one show to carry their network regardless of how popular it is and air it over and over again. Other shows need proper attention that deserve it. Variety to your channel is one of the basics of running a network but Miller nor Vishnu understand that.
Like I said, Gumball is spammed, as is O.K K.O, Let's Be Heroes!

If you see now, the merch doesn't sell as well as it used to with how CN gives little attention to those shows. a network shouldn't rely on one type of audience to carry your network. Its more smarter to appeal to all ages, which CN in its prime(in the 90s, early 2000s, and early 2010s) always prided itself on doing. Them only caring and appealing to current smaller kids and completely ignoring fans who are of an older audience that grew up with the network isn't how to run a network when shows like Adventure Time appealed to all ages and had a lasting impact being a timeless classic which was what made them a huge success. CN needs to learn to actually listen to its audience that grew up with the network that can help provide insight into what they want to help improve the network such as greenlighting Infinity Train or Galactic KND which has been demanded for years now but CN scoffs at and turns away from not just the current gen and give a middle finger to people who grew up with it. They need to take notes from Nick on how to listen to its fans and not just smaller kids. They're actually reviving things like Hey Arnold and Invader Zim that were loved by many and what fans have asked for a long time.

Also while CN Real ruined the ratings for the channel, the ratings for CN were actually rising when Adventure Time and Regular Show came around. They both were huge successes and practically saved the network. And once Gumball, Steven Universe and We Bare Bears were on their way they actually helped the network improve thanks to its diverse programming so yes 2010-2014 ratings were actually improving
We Bare Bears came in 2015, when the ratings were dropping. Plus, we don't know if Infinity Train got green lighted. Also, Cartoon Network is a children's channel, so that's why they cater to kids.
 
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That's not quite how it works. If the kids didn't want to watch TTG, they would just change the channel. And what do you mean by "they have no choice"? It's not like they have to watch TV at all.

Besides, the network's increasingly relying on their digital services kind of makes this argument hold a lot less water.
and how exactly would younger kids have as much freedom to change the channel as much as adults can? Kids are rarely aware of the other options to watch on TV and even if they were, they would easily just latch on the first thing they see and get hooked on it regardless of the quality unaware of other shows that have superior quality. its most likely parents that would leave it on the channel to keep younger viewers quite instead of kids changing it on their own whim. And i say no choice because TTG is basically majority of the schedule so of course kids are bound to run into it instead of other shows that deserve to get more attention.And the network relying on streaming is pretty much adding to the problem when viewers who need to rely on cable are deprived of a diverse schedule which is why he network needs to actually learn o make a competent schedule. And why shouldnt kids have to watch TV? If they want to watch TV then they deserve to get variety and be open to more quality programming so that rebuttal makes no sense.
 
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Like I said, Gumball is also spammed, as is OK KO, Let's Be Heroes.

We Bare Bears came in 2015, when the ratings were dropping. Plus, we don't know if Infinity Train got green lighted. Also, Cartoon Network is a children's channel, so that's why they cater to kids.

Yes Gumball airs often but definitely not on the level of TTG. And in no way is OK KO spammed whatsoever especially when it only gets an hour of airtime a day. if anything its a show that deserves more attention as how it was mistreated in the week of its premiere with TTG eclipsing it.

Even when ratings were dropping, We Bare Bears still had huge ratings. And just because the network is aimed at kids didnt mean they aimed only at kids especially when back then they actually appealed to all ages so that excuse doesnt hold up well. They put plenty of effort into entertaining fans of all ages
 

Toon4Thought

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and how exactly would younger kids have as much freedom to change the channel as much as adults can? Kids are rarely aware of the other options to watch on TV and even if they were, they would easily just latch on the first thing they see and get hooked on it regardless of the quality unaware of other shows that have superior quality. its most likely parents that would leave it on the channel to keep younger viewers quite instead of kids changing it on their own whim.
I'm pretty dang sure 6 year olds know how to use something as simple as a remote control in today's tech-heavy age - and barring that, they aren't blind sheep who would just watch anything. They do have at least some sense of taste, believe it or not.

Besides, from what I've heard the majority of kids now prefer tablets over TV anyway.

And i say no choice because TTG is basically majority of the schedule so of course kids are bound to run into it instead of other shows that deserve to get more attention.And the network relying on streaming is pretty much adding to the problem when viewers who need to rely on cable are deprived of a diverse schedule which is why he network needs to actually learn o make a competent schedule.
But most of the people who do have cable have access to these streaming services, as they basically come with the package.

And why shouldnt kids have to watch TV? If they want to watch TV then they deserve to get variety and be open to more quality programming so that rebuttal makes no sense.
You basically gave off the impression that kids absolutely must deal with the TTG marathons whenever they turn on the TV, which is clearly far from true from what me and everyone else has said on the matter.

They have other ways of watching CN's content that they would - in fact - be aware of (why else would they constantly advertise their app on the live feed?), other channels to watch, and other things to do.
 
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I'm pretty dang sure 6 year olds know how to use something as simple as a remote control in today's tech-heavy age - and barring that, they aren't blind sheep who would just watch anything. They do have at least some sense of taste, believe it or not.

Besides, from what I've heard the majority of kids now prefer tablets over TV anyway.

Even if they happen to know how to work a remote what reason would they have to change it? and younger kids actually are prone to be latched on to whatever show a parent throws on screen regardless if its good or not. A kid who is just getting introduced to television would watch anything regardless if its good or not. At that age they lack a sense of taste or quality. How exactly would they build up a more refined taste for programming if they're immediately introduced to bad shows? Its similar to how kids would eat anything they put into their mouth but should you let them eat lead paint chips? Same logic applies here. Plus the internet is not as easy to access as TV especially for children who cant soley rely on it without any assistance.

But most of the people who do have cable have access to these streaming services, as they basically come with the package.

Except the Internet isnt as common to access as there is plenty of variables to consider such as strength, bufferings, whether or not they even have all the shows you're looking for or not. There's still a vast audience that still relies on cable to get the shows they need hence why TV still has a place.

ou basically gave off the impression that kids absolutely must deal with the TTG marathons whenever they turn on the TV, which is clearly far from true from what me and everyone else has said on the matter.

They have other ways of watching CN's content that they would - in fact - be aware of (why else would they constantly advertise their app on the live feed?), other channels to watch, and other things to do.

You're pretty much giving off the impression that you dont want to see the network fixed. Kids still need to acknowledge variety on the channel because like as I and even other reviewers have pointed out that not everyone has access to other means of watching shows and still prefer to have a decent schedule. You seem to think its too much to ask for. And no, kids dont always have the option as they'll easily latch on to the endless marathons which is indeed a problem so saying "they can watch something else" isnt gonna fix the issue the channel currently has. It seems like your not getting this that the constant app pushing is the PROBLEM and isnt doing a thing to fix the network and its just them putting little effort into actually advertising other shows. It seems as though you are unaware of how little attention other shows that are not TTG or other reboots get promoted on the main channel. Kids need to have all options possible and that includes cable since once again execs needs to actually put more effort and improve in its programming. Just because there are "other ways" doesnt mean it should excuse the neglect the main channel gets, its like not caring that your own arm is cut off but just fine that you have another arm
 
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Red Arrow

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Even if they happen to know how to work a remote what reason would they have to change it? and younger kids actually are prone to be latched on to whatever show a parent throws on screen regardless if its good or not. A kid who is just getting introduced to television would watch anything regardless if its good or not. At that age they lack a sense of taste or quality. How exactly would they build up a more refined taste for programming if they're immediately introduced to bad shows?
Not all children are like this, but my twin brother definitely was. My mother turned on Ketnet or VTM when we were young. So at the age of 6, my brother didn't even want to TRY new channels. He never even tried Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, VT4, Fox Kids or NPO... There was so much to choose from but my brother never tried anything new.

I'd say it's a minority, though. He was the only kid at school like that. Heck, he still acts like that in some ways.
 

Toon4Thought

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Even if they happen to know how to work a remote what reason would they have to change it? and younger kids actually are prone to be latched on to whatever show a parent throws on screen regardless if its good or not. A kid who is just getting introduced to television would watch anything regardless if its good or not. At that age they lack a sense of taste or quality. How exactly would they build up a more refined taste for programming if they're immediately introduced to bad shows? Its similar to how kids would eat anything they put into their mouth but should you let them eat lead paint chips? Same logic applies here. Plus the internet is not as easy to access as TV especially for children who cant soley rely on it without any assistance.
Well, for one, entertainment is quite subjective. TTG does have a clear audience, and I will not hesitate to admit that I get some enjoyment out of it every so often.
Second, TTG most likely won't quite be the first thing most kids watch on TV. It'll either be preschool shows or them just casually observing whatever the parents/guardians are watching.


You're pretty much giving off the impression that you dont want to see the network fixed. Kids still need to acknowledge variety on the channel because like as I and even other reviewers have pointed out that not everyone has access to other means of watching shows and still prefer to have a decent schedule. You seem to think its too much to ask for. And no, kids dont always have the option as they'll easily latch on to the endless marathons which is indeed a problem so saying "they can watch something else" isnt gonna fix the issue the channel currently has.
More like, I don't care if the live feed doesn't "get fixed" and I legitimately don't see why people believe it still means everything to a network's success. And that's because I probably wouldn't watch the live feed even if it's lineup was actually ideal.

Also, you seem to be speaking as if they don't WANT to use the other options, when you're claiming these options don't exist to begin with. But beyond that, I know that plenty of kids prefer using tablets over TV nowadays, and prefer services like Netflix over live TV. Thus, it's clear that they aren't just mindless sheep who will latch on to everything they see.

When I was just 6 years old, I remarked on just how much one channel in particular overplayed MASH. And considering just how many cable networks spam one or two shows nowadays... yeah, I'd probably prefer Netflix over cable at that age too.

It seems like your not getting this that the constant app pushing is the PROBLEM and isnt doing a thing to fix the network and its just them putting little effort into actually advertising other shows. It seems as though you are unaware of how little attention other shows that are not TTG or other reboots get promoted on the main channel. Kids need to have all options possible and that includes cable since once again execs needs to actually put more effort and improve in its programming. Just because there are "other ways" doesnt mean it should excuse the neglect the main channel gets, its like not caring that your own arm is cut off but just fine that you have another arm
That's because most people who watch the live channel aren't even viewers of shows like Adventure Time. And they do promote shows like OK KO, Gumball, and Steven Universe a LOT on there last I checked.
 

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