ganon51
Member
Most people you ask about this season will say it was a step down from the first 3 seasons of Batman: TAS. Do you feel that its cons outweigh the pros?
Not at all. If anything, I think the character redesigns (bar Joker and Catwoman) were one of the best parts of the show.Most people you ask about this season will say it was a step down from the first 3 seasons of Batman: TAS. Do you feel that its cons outweigh the pros?
Qualitywise TNBA was more consistent than BTAS. It wasn't necessarily better all of the time, but it was hardly ever worse than the worst of BTAS.I really don't get the antagonism toward TNBA. The redesigns took Bruce Timm's design aesthetic to the edge of abstraction, which I guess bothers less adventurous folks, but the only design failures resulted from the design failing to match the character. Two Face's redesign for example makes both of his faces look evil, which is obviously wrong. But Batman, Batgirl, Robin, Nightwing, Scarecrow, Bane, and the Penguin were all triumphs. Even the much-hated Joker redesign, meant to resemble a grinning skull, was a daring experiment, though it didn't animate as well as it looked on paper.
As for consistency in writing and animation, TNBA is arguably superior to any random sampling of episodes from BTAS. As for the stories, I don't see how "bland and generic" would in any way apply to a season with episodes like "Never Fear," "Over The Edge," "Old Wounds," "Growing Pains," "Legends of The Dark Knight," and "Mad Love." TNBA is arguably a darker show than BTAS.
The one area where I do think BTAS had an advantage was the presence of co-producer Eric Radomski and background painter John Calmette. Their absence is much felt in TNBA, not only in the lack of title cards, but in the overall tone. The black-on-black darkness, stark cityscapes, and gritty airbushed look of Batman's world were defining factors of BTAS's noir world, and they're much missed in TNBA.
The one area where I do think BTAS had an advantage was the presence of co-producer Eric Radomski and background painter John Calmette. Their absence is much felt in TNBA, not only in the lack of title cards, but in the overall tone. The black-on-black darkness, stark cityscapes, and gritty airbushed look of Batman's world were defining factors of BTAS's noir world, and they're much missed in TNBA.
Did TNBA do more harm than good? No, not by a long shot. Yes, some of the redesigns didn't work well, but others were vast improvements (both Penguin and Scarecrow come to mind). I do wish that the relationship between Dick and Babs had continued over from Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero; the Barbara/Bruce thing never worked for me--at all.
Bruce growing more and more consumed with crime-fighting felt like a perfectly natural progression to me. He was already obsessed and just grew more obsessive. I never felt the comics versions of Tim Drake or Dick Grayson were very interesting to begin with (the first was too much of a paragon, the second was bland), so I was fine with TNBA Tim having more of Jason Todd's street-kid attitude and Dick being resentful toward Bruce.
As for the Bruce and Barbara relationship, that didn't really happen until Batman Beyond, though TNBA did clear the way by ending Dick and Barbara's relationship. Additionally Batgirl became a full-time partner of Batman, whereas Nightwing kept his distance in order to establish a separate identity from the Bat-folks.
I have to disagree since for that they could have used actual Jason Todd instead of Tim(maybe bringing in ACTUAL Tim Drake later). The whole resentment between Bruce and Dick just never felt quite right to me at all since it went against major aspects of the characters, ditto for making Dick too much like Batman at times when the reason for his popularity in the comics fandom is SPECIFICALLY due to him not being anything like Batman by being a universally beloved and charismatic hero.
If they used Jason Todd then everyone would be expect him to die or have something horrible happen to him during the series. It would have put a permanent cloud of doom over the animated character at a time when his fate, as disclosed in Return of the Joker, had yet to be determined. You have to remember that back then Jason Todd was mostly famous for being killed, and he'd been dead for a decade. The producers of TNBA probably thought a streetkid Robin would be more interesting and easier to introduce than the comic version of Tim Drake, who had a very convoluted origin. But naming him Jason Todd would lead to all sorts of viewer expectations and foreboding, so they dodged that by using Tim's name.
As for the resentment/estrangement between Bruce and Dick, that was portrayed in the comics, especially when Dick was leaving to join the Titans and become Nightwing, so it's true to the original characters, just less melodramatic. And the root of the conflict in the show was that Dick did not want to be cold and obsessive like Batman. And in TNBA he generally isn't. As for being "universally beloved and charismatic," the show is about Batman, not the apotheosis of a supporting player like Nightwing.
Finally, someone else who loves this Batman design. I wish they had kept it for JL/U. It especially looked great when his shoulder highlight was more pronounced:This is the best Bruce Timm design for Batman with the black emblem, cape and the brown belt. Dick Grayson became Nightwing. It was a natural progression for the series.