"DC's Legends of Tomorrow" Season Four Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

New Legends! Right now on The CW.

"The Getaway"
Monday, April 8, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
When Hank commandeers the Waverider in 1973, the Legends find themselves on the run in an RV after kidnapping the President who is only able to tell the truth.

 

[Road to Gotham]

Another lackluster episode. C-.
Poor Mona. BooHoo. Wish they would have stranded her in the 70's.
Maybe she could have been Nixon's handler.
Speaking of which, the actor playing Nixon looked very little like the former President.

Too bad Clifton James is no longer alive, he would have been perfect playing the southern sheriff getting bully by Hank.
If you recall James played a hick sheriff in 2 James Bond movies and Superman II.

 

[Fone Bone]

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "The Getaway"

That was fun. There were some bad things, but when you are enjoying something, you forgive the bad things. That's how it works.

I liked the first half of the episode better than the second.

I love that Rory's simply wants to save Robert Redford and independent film. Do you know what that makes Rory? A hero.

I especially like that the truth bug gets restless when he tells Ray he thinks he's an idiot and when he tells him he doesn't care what he thinks.

Love the stuff with Nora and Gary. Gary continues to be the best supporting player on the show. His actor needs to be made a series regular ASAP.

Bad things? Per usual, the Mona stuff was all kinds of cringe. Plus, I didn't like this version of Nixon. I feel like on an Arrowverse show, they should have gotten someone who looks and sounds like him like they did on Doctor Who. Sort of take the idea a bit seriously. Instead they got a cartoon impressionist, who was about as ridiculous as when Dana Carvey did George Bush on SNL. Yeah, he was funny. But he also wasn't the slightest bit credible, which is a definite fault in the episode.

Gratuitous Coca-Cola product placement is gratuitous.

I can't wait for what they are going to do with Nate and Nora. That hints at some great upcoming conflict. And unlike last week's Ava and Sara stuff, I did not find that misunderstanding forced at all. Similarly, Nate's stuff with Hank felt real and credible as well. Having conflict between two characters is not as hard as last week was making it look. It's even possible to do it if both characters aren't bad. It just takes decent writing and dialogue, which this episode mostly had. I think the Nora and Sara stuff was a low point, but everything else felt organic to me.

That was a very enjoyable episode. ****.

 

[The Penguin]

"Séance and Sensibility"
Monday, April 15, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
.

 

[Fone Bone]

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "Seance And Sensibility"

That was a chore. Normally I give Arrowverse episodes that bad zero stars, but the last couple of scenes were interesting, and frankly it failed in a way unusual for Arrowverse shows. Usually Arrowverse shows suck because they write the characters badly to create forced drama. Here the characters themselves are all fine. It's the story itself that is horrendous. I disliked it from the get-go (I hate sex episodes of genre shows) but I hated it more and more as it was going along. The Bollywood musical number was inexcusable. A few weeks ago, the characters turned into puppets. And I almost said to myself then "What is my limit to craziness?" And them bursting into song and dance here told me what it actually was. And the really bad thing about most musical episodes is that they are badly written and corny to work around the songs. A good musical episode like Buffy's "Once More With Feeling" is the rarity. I have no idea why so many dramas attempt it. They are almost always terrible. This one was worse than most. Not as bad as Riverdale or Once Upon A Time, but definitely in the bottom rung of the attempts.

I have to give the episode props for one good thing: despite the fact that people seem to be falling in love against their wills, I feel very strongly that the episode managed to lack the rape subtext that is present in almost every other sex spell episode in genre shows. As much as I hate the trope, I will say I respect the show for not having characters do things they didn't actually want to do. And the reason I hate love spell episodes is because writers think they are funny, when there is almost always a rape or two present. I didn't feel that in this specific episode, although I will also concede that may just be me. I am a male of the species, and just as clueless about that stuff as any other person of my gender.

I have to say I really hate the character of Mona. It's bad enough that she's stupid and predictable. She's pulling focus from characters I like like Rory. And frankly, this was supposed to be Constantine's big season. That's what it was billed as at any rate. And they've turned it into all about her instead. I am very unhappy with this character. But I don't expect her back next year. I think she will wind up very unpopular with the audience, and widely considered the Arrowverse's version of Wesley Crusher. She is just awful on every level.

The idea that Hank wanted to build a theme park is ludicrous, but unlike the musical number it was a level of ludicrous I was willing to accept. Provisionally at least.

I love Ray instantly believing Nora's innocence just upon her say-so, especially seconds after immediately telling her nothing would change his mind. I see Adam West looking into the Old Comedy Ball and saying "Ha ha ha! I tell you that man is very easily persuaded!"

Anyone else weirded out by the fact that he kissed Nate? I didn't find it either gross or out of character. It's just freaking awkward and not actually funny. It's cringe instead.

Which pretty much sums up my default emotion as I was watching this stupid episode. Sheesh. *.

 

[Road to Gotham]

I did like the BOLLYWOOD style musical number. Other then that it was another bland episode.

 

[The Penguin]

"The Eggplant, The Witch & The Wardrobe"
Monday, April 22, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
With darkness on the rise in 2019, the team realizes that a new host of problems have risen as they have been cleaning up history.

 

[Yojimbo]

I was like "sigh, whatever" to Ray's bungling and what happened to him at the end.

 

[Fone Bone]

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "The Eggplant, The Witch, And The Wardrobe"

Ponders that. On paper, this is my kind of episode. The characters talk out their problems, while the show explores their psychologies and relationships. That's the entire reason I watch television at all. This is the specific kind of episode I usually love. Why didn't I?

I am a very unusual viewer in that I do not demand unpredictability from my television. I think that's an unreasonable ask for every TV show, and if it's something you demand, either you will never wind enjoying anything at all, or the show will go on twist blow-out after twist blow-out and wind up sucking. Speaking for me, there is something to be said for an hour of television shaking down exactly the way the story is supposed to.

But for me, there's a difference between me knowing how the familiar premise is going to resolve itself (in this case two characters trapped inside the purgatory of one their heads) and the premise being tired and overdone. I don't mind seeing stories I know what is likely to happen. What I mind is seeing stories that have been done so often they bore me. Where I sigh in resignation at every sappy line. I'm not sure anyone reading this review will get that distinction, but it is real, and I think this fell into the latter scenario.

If there was one thing I liked, it's the idea at the end that Ray is possessed by Nuron. Because if it had been Nora, you would have been dreading it, and Ray having to go up against the woman he loved as the Big Bad of the season. Since it's Ray, it's a fun problem to be fixed instead. Which will no doubt make next week easier to watch.

Speaking of both Ray, and overdone tropes I don't enjoy, there are few things more frustrating than watching heroes about to demolish the bad guy in a huge Crowning Moment Of Awesome, only for a bumbling naive goofball to clumsily mess everything up at the last second. Basically Ray's role in the climax is to be Shortround. And Shortround is the reason Temple of Doom is the worst Indiana Jones movie of all time, and makes Crystal Skull look like Citizen Kane. Basically the writers have Ray be a dope to add complications a competent hero or sidekick would never add. It's super annoying, and the frustrating thing is that I don't feel like this is the first time they've done that with Ray. It didn't feel that way at all.

I've been complaining the past few episodes about how Mona-obsessed the show has become, and now I feel the exact same way about Nate's Daddy issues. Get over it, man! Maybe Nate shouldn't have to grieve on the audience's time-table. But that's not what I object to. If it's "I hate my father and I suck because I don't miss him," or "I love my father and it sucks that I miss him," I would not not object to the series having Nate mope about these things. It's that he can't make up his mind. My investment in Hank being thought of as a good person and father or not is minuscule compared to Nate's. Maybe that should go without saying, but I think the show is again obsessing over something that nobody watching actually cares about. Which is a really bad sign.

Luckily, Constantine had a large presence after being sidelined for the past few weeks, although I want to see Rory more involved too. But I felt like this episode was less predictable comfort food television (which I DO approve of), and more like a below average take on something we've seen a million times before (which I don't). **1/2.

 

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on on The CW.

"Egg MacGuffin"
Monday, April 29, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
While Ray is worried about Nora, he is suddenly faced with his own problem that forces him to do the unthinkable.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Not to get too philosophical here, but does being forced against one's will to kill a loved one count as a sin that would damn one's soul? It seems to me that the blame falls upon the controlling demon. Neron's reasoning doesn't seem to hold up--unless he's lying.

 

[Fone Bone]

Not to get too philosophical here, but does being forced against one's will to kill a loved one count as a sin that would damn one's soul? It seems to me that the blame falls upon the controlling demon. Neron's reasoning doesn't seem to hold up--unless he's lying.

Excellent point.

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "Egg MacGuffin"

Oh, wonderful. They just turned Gary evil. This is Arrowverse 101. Take a beloved, perfectly-written character, and simply destroy them for no reason whatsoever. This had been the one Arrowverse show that hadn't done that yet, but I think this season will make us see that us believing this was the ONE good Arrowverse show was nothing more than wishful thinking. Dang. The Flash's season cratered last week too. Arrowverse shows CANNOT stick the landing by the time the finale hits, no matter how far into the season they get.

This show has the best episode titles though. I'll give it that.

I was annoyed by Sara and Ava's wager about the hook-up, and what I was most annoyed about is that the wager is portrayed as fun and normal. And this isn't just a problem with this show, or even all of fiction. It's a problem with our entire society. Nobody has a sense of propriety anymore. It doesn't occur to either the characters or the writers that what Nate and Zari wind up doing on their date is entirely their own business, and that Sara and Ava aren't automatically entitled to find out whether or not they had sex. And I can't really fault the show for this terrible joke and idea simply because this is considered normal by many people. It never will be for me, and I don't accept the idea that it's okay for society in general. I think discretion and privacy regarding your love-life is the best thing for everyone involved. Yourself, your loved one, anyone outside of the relationship. Broadcasting your sexual details doesn't actually help anybody, and can sometimes wind up harmful. Since there is never any benefit to doing so, it strikes me as crazy that so many in modern society are willing to risk all of the bad things that can happen by making themselves a public spectacle, with literally no hope for any sort of reward about that specific kind of honesty. I feel that today's generation entirely lacks class, and I'd probably be angrier if my generation wasn't the first one to open the door. But I think that's a really bad thing for society, as well as friends who travel in the same circles. It also strikes me as mean on Sara and Ava's end, and as if they are treating and Nate and Zari's privacy as a joke for their own amusement. And that bothers the hell out of me.

To be honest, as annoying as I found most of the episode, I'm not giving it a failing grade. I'm giving it a bare-pass. Why? The Rory stuff was amazing. What I love is that Charlie correctly convinces him to go to the convention because it is an easy $20,000, and the easiest scam ever. And Rory agrees, and I think that it's great too. But what I love is learning that Rory actually takes it seriously. He thinks Charlie is being rude. Obviously, the women who read him are not the types of people he hangs around with. But what I love is that he connects with them as fans. How his words make them feel matters to him. He answers fan-mail and is pleased his writing positively effects so many people. I don't know about you, but that is what makes Rory a real writer to me. If I ever became a famous writer I wouldn't like going to conventions either (I almost certainly never would) but I think what every writer wants and hopes for is a connection with their readers. Because whether he is using a nom de plume of a different gender or not, Rory IS sharing himself with his fans. And it strikes me as especially genius that this show is both using this specific character in this fashion, and also making him insightful enough to fully understand what he doing. The rest of the episode bothered me very much, but ultimately I cannot pan the episode while it is doing something like that.

You'll notice I've been railing against the show for not using Rory enough this season week after week. After those results, can you blame me? At all? Really, I wish that were the whole episode. It was really quite amazing, even if nothing else actually was. ***.

 

[Yojimbo]

Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on on The CW.

"Nip/Stuck"
Monday, May 6, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
When Sara hesitates to make a tough call, Rory steps up creating a wedge in the team. Meanwhile, Ava gives Gary the responsibility of handling the Bureau performance reviews for all the Agents.

 

[Fone Bone]

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "Nip / Stuck"

Constantine in Hell means next week is gonna be great. I love that Hell isn't pits of fire. It's a dirty, crime-ridden slum. I see that and I'm like, "That's more like it." I know which place I would rather not go.

Nipnotizing is this show trying to make Fetch happen. It's hellastupid. Or more accurately totally t-word (although that failed Cartman catchphrase actually means good.)

Why didn't the team think of to melt the ice themselves immediately? Why is that a happy accident? Without Ray there they are all dopes.

Speaking of which, Mona leading herself into the trap was probably some of the dumbest hero dialogue since Harry Potter's appallingly bewildered reactions to Tom Riddle's duplicity at the end of Chambers Of Secrets. What is SO freaking hard to get here?

"I knew you were a team player." And that is why I hate television. Right there.

Jane Carr's name in the opening credits meant I automatically knew who Tabitha was. Maybe the writers weren't trying THAT hard to surprise me, but they probably would have if they held off her guest star credit until the end titles.

The two things I took biggest note of were a good thing and a puzzling thing, which sort of makes it a bad thing.

But I like that when Rory pushes back against Sara for being angry at his mistake, his arguments against her are logical, solid, justified, and sound. And after last week I'm like "We have totally been reading this guy wrong as the dumb one." He's sharper than anyone against him would ever want him to be. I love arguing with dumb people. Smart people? Not so much.+

The puzzling thing could be considered bad writing, but I think it also is consistent with how self-loathing Constantine is. Because I would not be offended by Nuron showing me that my ancestor was a monster. On the contrary, it would be a relief. I'd be like "I'm not that bad after all, and am the first decent person in my entire family." I would not feel shame, but pride, pretty much exclusively because of how many terrible things are on John's soul. Basically the first Constantine tells John that things could actually be much worse. And since his soul is condemned to Hell, I'd consider that a small victory.

That was pretty good. ****.

+Kidding. I love you guys.

 

[Tohya]

Oh, wonderful. They just turned Gary evil. This is Arrowverse 101. Take a beloved, perfectly-written character, and simply destroy them for no reason whatsoever. This had been the one Arrowverse show that hadn't done that yet, but I think this season will make us see that us believing this was the ONE good Arrowverse show was nothing more than wishful thinking. Dang. The Flash's season cratered last week too. Arrowverse shows CANNOT stick the landing by the time the finale hits, no matter how far into the season they get.

Interesting that you immediately came to this conclusion, because the episode didn't give any indication (or tell for that matter) that they were going to have Gary do a full blown heel turn. Like, I didnt think for a second that after the end of last weeks episode, Gary was going to get the Arrowverse treatment. There was no way his heel turn was ever going to not be played up for laughs. Which is exactly what ended up happening, we didn't get mustache twirling evil Gary but the inverse of his character. A cool, confident and suave Gary, but armed with a hypnotic nipple which I'd say is right in line with his character and not a destruction of it.

Also, the running joke among fans has been that Adam Tsekhman is actually an extremely good looking guy in real life but he plays this nerdy looking duffus on LoT. Seems he finally got to channel a bit of his real life persona, the one that makes girls swoon.

Nipnotizing is this show trying to make Fetch happen. It's hellastupid. Or more accurately totally t-word (although that failed Cartman catchphrase actually means good.)

I think its honestly a toss up between The Good Place and this show of which writers rooms is having the most fun. Nipnotizing wasn't them trying to make fetch happen, it was just them leaning in on the ridiculousness of the show. It's pretty much par for the course.

Why didn't the team think of to melt the ice themselves immediately? Why is that a happy accident? Without Ray there they are all dopes.

Well Rory did want to use his heat gun, but Gideon yada yada'd some explanation as to why he couldnt just do that. I mean, at least it was payed off. We got some great Roy and Sara moments. Some great Star Wars references (never tell me the odds) and the Legends getting out of a jam by being exactly who they are, irresponsibly consuming the ship’s power, screwing off, and showing love to Ray while playing a game he created.

"I knew you were a team player." And that is why I hate television. Right there.

Speaking of that line and who it was addressed to, Courtney Ford has been an absolute revelation. That line might of been cringe for you but Courtney Ford was excellent at underplaying Nora’s satisfaction upon hearing it. I really hope she gets to stay on as a Legend and they just rotate Mona out.

Also, why is Brandon Routh so great at playing a villain? His Neron reminds me of his villain turns in Scott Pilgarm and Chuck (who IMO played that shows best villain).

 

[Fone Bone]

Interesting that you immediately came to this conclusion, because the episode didn't give any indication (or tell for that matter) that they were going to have Gary do a full blown heel turn. Like, I didnt think for a second that after the end of last weeks episode, Gary was going to get the Arrowverse treatment. There was no way his heel turn was ever going to not be played up for laughs. Which is exactly what ended up happening, we didn't get mustache twirling evil Gary but the inverse of his character. A cool, confident and suave Gary, but armed with a hypnotic nipple which I'd say is right in line with his character and not a destruction of it.

Also, the running joke among fans has been that Adam Tsekhman is actually an extremely good looking guy in real life but he plays this nerdy looking duffus on LoT. Seems he finally got to channel a bit of his real life persona, the one that makes girls swoon.

I think its honestly a toss up between The Good Place and this show of which writers rooms is having the most fun. Nipnotizing wasn't them trying to make fetch happen, it was just them leaning in on the ridiculousness of the show. It's pretty much par for the course.

Well Rory did want to use his heat gun, but Gideon yada yada'd some explanation as to why he couldnt just do that. I mean, at least it was payed off. We got some great Roy and Sara moments. Some great Star Wars references (never tell me the odds) and the Legends getting out of a jam by being exactly who they are, irresponsibly consuming the ship’s power, screwing off, and showing love to Ray while playing a game he created.

Speaking of that line and who it was addressed to, Courtney Ford has been an absolute revelation. That line might of been cringe for you but Courtney Ford was excellent at underplaying Nora’s satisfaction upon hearing it. I really hope she gets to stay on as a Legend and they just rotate Mona out.

Also, why is Brandon Routh so great at playing a villain? His Neron reminds me of his villain turns in Scott Pilgarm and Chuck (who IMO played that shows best villain).

I'm always a little bit weirded out when you do a point by point critique of my reviews. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad someone's reading them, but you are probably giving my dumbass opinions more weight than they deserve.

 

[The Penguin]

Right now on on The CW!

"Terms of Service"
Monday, May 13, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Sara and Ava concoct a bold plan to take back the Time Bureau; Zari and Charlie must work together to discover what Neron is planning; Constantine is given a tough choice on who to save from Hell.

 

[Fone Bone]

DC's Legends Of Tomorrow "Terms Of Service"

That was fun. The two main things I want to talk about are John and Gary.

First off, it's a tragedy that John will never rescue Astra. It's too late. She's evil now. They did some excellent callbacks to his beloved series with I'm pretty sure actual footage from it and that was awesome. I also think Constantine works better on side adventures separated from the other Legends. He doesn't quite fit into the team dynamic and I much prefer him being their ally, but working on his own. Good stuff.

The Gary stuff is amazing. Book Club. Book. Freaking. Club. Phenomenal Cosmic Powers at his beck and call and he wants Book Club. Gary is not a person who wants much. It is his most endearing quality, and the one virtue that makes you forgive everything else. And when he reveals he's been wishing dumb stuff partly to protect the Legends from the bloodthirsty Godmother, you realize he is not entirely useless, even when he's evil. And his darkest punishments for them are entirely harmless. I love the guy and am glad he's back on the right side.

Speaking of the Godmother, her manipulations of Nora were brilliant. She was JUST helpful enough throughout the episode to be credible. Very smartly played.

Kid Zari looks so much like her adult actress it's scary. I as a rule hate television, but one of the best things about current television is that they will now put in the effort to hire a kid actor similar in looks and bearing to the adult one. Ten or fifteen years ago, they never bothered to do that. I am more sanguine about The Golden Age Of Television than most pop culture nerds, but I cannot deny that current stuff is way better at this one thing than older stuff.

Nuron is totally destroying 2019's Ray's reputation. Maybe Rip didn't recruit Ray in the Pilot because he never did anything historic. Maybe it was because he was wildly unpopular in society and no-one would miss him. I was a little furious at the public thing Nuron was doing with Ray's face. But that might just be me.

That was a good hour of television. ****.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

I meant to post this minor correction earlier: It's 'Neron' not 'Nuron'. Not a big deal.

You're probably right about John working better as a guest star on Legends rather than as a regular, much as I like having him here. At least his own series is headed for a revival!

 

[Road to Gotham]

Constantine adventures in Hell was more interesting part for me.
John it seems can't catch a break. Tries to do the right thing but it too late, Astra has totally submitted to her surroundings.

I was hoping a citizen of Hell would have told John that LUCIFER is no longer ruler, he is on the mortal plane.

The comedy moments with Gary had some funny bits.
The switch with Tabitha and Nora was unexpected.