"Black Widow" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Rate the movie

  • *****

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ****1/2

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  • ****

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • ***1/2

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • ***

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  • **1/2

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  • **

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  • *1/2

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  • *

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  • Total voters
    3

Yojimbo

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I'm done running from my past.

BlackWidow.jpg

Black Widow
Release Date:
July 9, 2021 (July 8 advance screenings)
Home Entertainment Release Date: August 10 (Digital) and September 14 (4K Ultra HD, Blu-ray and DVD)
Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
Director: Cate Shortland
MPAA Rating: PG -13 (for intense sequences of violence/action, some language and thematic material)
Screenwriters: Jac Schaeffer and Ned Benson (Story) and Eric Pearson (Screenplay)
Starring: Scarlett Johansson, Florence Pugh, Rachel Weisz, David Harbour, O-T Fagbenle, William Hurt, Ray Winstone
Runtime: 133 minutes

Plot Summary: In Marvel Studios' action-packed spy thriller Black Widow, Natasha Romanoff, aka Black Widow, confronts the darker parts of her ledger when a dangerous conspiracy with ties to her past arises. Pursued by a force that will stop at nothing to bring her down, Natasha must deal with her history as a spy and the broken relationships left in her wake long before she became an Avenger.

Related Links:
-Disney Plus Official Page
-Black Widow News and Discussion Thread
-Avengers Endgame Talkback Thread
-Avengers: Infinity War Talkback Thread
-Captain America: Civil War Talkback Thread
-Avengers: Age of Ultron Talkback Thread
-Agent Carter Season 1 "The Iron Ceiling" Talkback Thread
-Captain America: The Winter Soldier Talkback Thread
-Avengers Talkback Thread
-Iron Man 2 Talkback Thread
-Marvel Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)

Related Reading:
-Black Widow Prelude #1
-Black Widow Prelude #2
-The Avengers Prelude: Black Widow Strikes #1
-The Avengers Prelude: Black Widow Strikes #2
-The Avengers Prelude: Black Widow Strikes #3
-The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week #2
-The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week #3
-The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week #4

Discuss Black Widow right here!

Please do not reveal spoilers about this movie in other threads for the next two weeks.
 
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Fone Bone

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Black Widow

I don't know what to think about that.

It was good. But I wanted great. And I didn't get it.

Black Widow is my favorite Avenger. And I desperately wanted this movie to do right by her. I was especially looking forward to the tag and seeing if they would buy back her horrible and pointless death from Avengers: Endgame.

No such luck. Apparently that worthless and pointless death, and literally only thing I didn't like about Endgame has stuck. This isn't the beginning of the Black Widow franchise we've always deserved. This a coda to the character that is imperfect and frustrating.

I'm not going to lie. There are a few interesting things about movie.

The most interesting thing to note is that its tone is far outside any previous Marvel Studios movie. It was far darker than anything we've ever seen before. The subject matter is about as nasty as the Netflix series that I wound up hating. And yet, I didn't hate the movie. The opening titles were horrific but I feel a sense of humanity and optimism attached to Natasha that is totally absent in Jessica Jones. Which makes her easier to root for.

Speaking of Jessica, this Dreykov cat is easily the most horrible villain the MCU has ever come up with. I truly think if Kilgrave were canon, Dreykov would be even worse than Kilgrave. Whatever horrible things Kilgrave did with his mind control, he didn't do them to his own daughter. It bothers me on some level that the craziest evil guy in the entire MCU is just some regular dude without superpowers. I don't feel like he's earned any of the power he's claimed for himself because of that. He's a coward and a monster.

I think Alexei is one of the most unique fictional bad fathers I've ever seen. I've literally never seen a fictional bad father like him before. What's unusual is that he IS one of the worst fictional fathers I've EVER seen. Not THE worst, but up there. But no, the weird thing is that there is absolutely no malice attached to how bad a father he is. He simply viewed the experience differently than Natasha and Yelena did. And the provocative thing is you wonder if he's even wrong for that. He's so messed up, and I'd feel better about hating him if there was any sort of meanness or cruelty attached to him. But in some ways he's as big of a victim of this jive as everyone else is.

That stuff with Melina stopping the pig from breathing is why this movie was FAR outside of my comfort zone. I don't feel comfortable with any movie with that specific level of depraved animal cruelty in it skating by with a PG-13 rating. But the MPAA has always been unfathomably corrupt. Them letting that disgusting scene slide proves it.

I always wanted a Marvel spy-fi movie or show (which Agents Of SHIELD foolishly did not think I deserved) but I have to say, that specific climax is not necessary for a spy-fi movie. It's beyond anything a James Bond movie could reasonably expect to do, which means I felt it was a little over-the-top and not suiting the premise right. Even when Marvel finally has the budget and the will to do a spy movie, they overdo it. It's frustrating. Marvel does NOT need to top itself with every movie. Anybody demanding that is not looking out for the franchise's best interest. And this movie's climax was way too much.

I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated that Feige and Marvel Studios have done wrong with my favorite female character in both Endgame and here, and that this apparently is not a mistake they are ever planning to fix. I'm frustrated that after waiting years for Natasha to get her own showcase it ends with a comical character lying to her sister over her grave. I'm just not happy. ***.

Trailer:

Somehow, showing an ambiguous clip from her death in Endgame makes this movie an even bigger disappointment than I already thought it was. **.
 

honorableninja

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Marvel must have an actual god on their side as while the pandemic screwed things up it still worked out perfectly as meeting Valentina in FATWS was a bit of a better introduction to her than the post credits scene of black widow but still that scene set up yelena return to the MCU proper in the timeline and got people even more excited for hawkeye
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Though Natasha can't claim to be the first MCU female character to have her own title in a movie, that'd be Ant Man and the Wasp, nor the first starring female lead in a movie, that'd be Captain Marvel, she can claim the rather cool and as of right now exclsive holder of being the first MCU character to be introduced in someone else's film and get her own movie when there weren't originally any plans for her to get a movie. See though the MCU does do a good job of planning things out and having their schedules line up it's clear especially early on that some times they just had to wing things and have no super set plan and learn how to work with what they first set up and build from there. For example the original Phase One that was suppose to build to the Avengers was suppose to give most of each of the founding members of the team (and Captain America as he was too big to exclude) their own movie before pairing them up. Which meant giving movies to Iron man, Hulk, Thor, Cap and... Ant Man. Yeah Hank Pym was originally supposed to get a movie in phase one which would of lead to Janet Van Dyne being introduced in The Avengers to have the full original team line up that book had. However that was when Edgar Wright and Marvel were having problems making an Ant Man movie work and yeah that's a whole story in itself. Point is that there was going to be some openings in the Avengers team without Ant Man and Wasp and the studio obviously wanted to fill those wholes. Thus it was decided (especially when Iron man proved to be such a big hit they'd need to make another one first) to introduce two other characters in Phase one to build to Avengers. And I have a feeling Ike Perlmutter and his cheapery wanted it to be more "low tech" characters that wouldn't require building giant massive suits or having them huge behmetoh CG monsters or come from golden goldy cities. Thus how Hawkeye and Black Widow were given spots. And heck Scarlett Johansesson Black widow wasn't even the studios first choice; that was supposed to go to Emily Blunt but she was stuck in a contract with 20th Century Fox at a time to star in one of their other movies, 2010's Gullivers's Travels and thus couldn't do it. So Scar Jo got the role and though people look back very critically on IM2 and even her part in it she was certainly a scene stealer who commanded quite a lot of attention and that only built up once the Avengers hit and people saw how cool she was not only as an ass kicker but even personality wise and general attitude.

There was a lot of demands for ages for her own movie but never happened. Again total jerk off Ike Perlmutter was in charge of Marvel at the time and stupidly belived "females and minorities can't sell leads in super hero movies" thus kept blocking it. And by the time that idiot was finally ousted out Phase 3 had already been fully mapped out. But I always felt for years even before it was announced that Black Widow would be one of the first to get her own Phase 4 movie. I think people scoffed at the idea at the time saying "what after the big Infinity War we're now going to get some more lower scale spy thriller" not realizing that's pretty much how the comics that have been going for DECADES operate; yeah Marvel loves it's large scale events but there are stories told between them and books starring more "mundane" heroes of all kind as there was still so much more to build up and give focus too that yeah having one of those be Black Widow made perfect sense to me. And I proved totally right as yup right before Endgame was released we heard they were finally filming this very movie. The bad news that did bum me out about this was yeah in Endgame Natasha died and thus this would be a "prequel" movie that happened before Infinity War/Endgame. Thankfully it being done after Civil War means we didn't loose her journey throughout those other movies and could still build on this character fans enjoyed but it did still feel annoying we knew the end of her journey and this was just another step of it. However after the delay due to COVID was this a good last step or should they not have bothered after so long?

Honestly I feel this movie does really work and though I do have some minor greviances and issues the bulk of it is strong and reminds me even as much as I'm liking most of the Marvel shows on Disney+ there is a point to these movies for scale and just having one big story told instead of smaller ones in separate chunks, even if the end of this is obviously detailing going to one of those smaller chunks for the next part of someone's story here.

I admit one thing that did really bug me about this movies were the CONSTANT Avengers references. I usually don't mind those as even in Ant Man it only had a few and at least that involved a fight with Falcon and leading to Civil War. This though just keeps piling it on and on. I get setting up why Natasha is on her own and obviously it would be weird if Yelena and others didn't mention it and some of them were at least decently amusing (like Alexei asking natasha if Captain America ever asked about him) but they really pile it on and it does take you out of the movie some. Not in the "why aren't the others here" since I know why based on the time line but it just feels like something that seriously should of been dialed back on. Especially since the only real physical presence of the rest of the universe is Ross who just has like one scene and though referenced and we see his vans again you don't really get anything else on. Heck why did Natasha even get taken at the end instead of leaving with the others if that ship wouldn't of been able to track them? I guess find out where the non Sokovia accord Avengers were taken since you see she broke out of Ross's grip two weeks later but does make him feel more just there besides again referencing stuff related to Avengers. I mean even the villain Dreykov keeps talking about "oh now that I have an Avenger under my control I can step out of the shadows" and yeah it feels a bit excessive. Speaking of Dreykov, this is admittedly a pretty weak and stock villain. I mean I guess it is nice to have someone as a total monster again in the MCU who is even fine with just having his burnt daughter under his total control and at least he isn't super moustache twirling or crazy so he isn't as bad as say Yellowjacket but he doesn't really have the menace or stage presence or heck even interesting rationale. In Winter Soldier Alexander Pierce at least had an interesting point and philosophy while this guy here is just "I take women off the streets and brain wash them into being my trained killers that I can use however I see fit" and that's pretty basic. I mean it's good for wanting to see this guy taken out but Phase 3 honestly has actually had a lot of really solid and interesting villains. Even though I had my problems with Mysterio he had a lot more going for him then this guy who heck was in the shadows for most of the first two acts even though you already knew who he was as shown in the prologue and though not seeming stupid or anything didn't seem like a threat. I guess this is also hurt by the fact that due to this being a prequel starring a character we already know it's not like anyone would believe his whole plan goes anywhere. I guess you can say the same thing about most villains but you're at least usually building the hero and villain throughout or they have something in there to make it interesting. This guy had... pheromones that stop women from attacking him? Kind of lame. And though I do think the twist with Taskmaster was pretty clever and does make her a tragic figure... there was such a build on that twist you don't really spend any time with the actual Antonia at all to really leave much of an impression. I also get a feeling this movie would track better if so much of it wasn't spoiled by ads. I guess that's a thing about a lot of Marvel movies and this one had the disadvantage of having ads for it play for over a year and a half and there were enough stuff in the movie to always keep me interested but it does feel like so much of this was spoiled. Seriously most but like two to three moves of Natasha vs Taskmaster were shown in the trailers that they really shouldn't of done... in fact showing a lot of Natasha on the ground after Drekyov's heli base explosion shouldn't of been done either. And... yeah that's really all the misses I have with this one as honestly for me the rest of the movie really worked and is a really solid enjoyable Black Widow film.

For one the action of this was great. Like the Marvel Disney Plus shows have promised movie level action and... so far only Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode 1 really delivered on that but this had several really cool fight scenes. The opening with the plane scene was pretty standard sand Alexei being on the wing but I did like how protective little Nat was and once the characters grew into their older self we had some good fight scenes. I dig how Yelena was able to take down this other escaped Black Widow before she tranqed her and seeing Taskmaster use the shield and Natasha's own widow spin against her before she was able to grapple Taskmaster enough to get the antidote and head away. They showed a lot of Yelena vs Natasha but Nat getting a drape to restrain her and the two time outing was a good way to end the scene and the coresponding car chase was pretty cool. Especially how Yelena took out one of the cyclist by removing one of the windows and the two sliding down that subway middle bar to try and escape Taskmaster. I am glad that Red Guardian got a chance to show off his strength and jumping skill in his break out and Natasha leaping down and taking out some guards and Yelena blowing one up who was shooting at them with the missile launcher and causing the avalanche was great. And though the final big climax wasn't anything super spectacular I think it really worked. I really dug the scuffle Red Guardian and Taskmaster had especially when Taskmaster used the black panther claw technique and Yelena taking out one of the soldiers and Natashas fight with all of the widows. Plus how yelena blew up Dreykov's engine and burned him and the rest of his fleeing agents alive was great. I mean Dreykov wasn't a good villain but I will give it that was a really good death and I appreciate Natasha letting out Taskmaster knowing she'd fight her just for a chance to save her with the gas after saving her sister. And though there isn't really any innocent collaterial damage I do appreciate how in most of the scenes the team weren't either pulling their punches or had reasons not to go all out. Since yeah the Widows were all just brainwashed so I get not really wanting to fight them but the people at the camp or Dreykov's men did actually die which made sense since yeah this shouldn't be a property where the heroes really hold back and glad to see that done well.

One thing I'm also glad we really got a focus of is something I've really missed seeing in Black Widow in the MCU: how well Natasha can read and manipulate people who think they have an advantage when she's really just using them. I admit for being fooled for a second by the switch a face spy disguise seen in Winter Soldier but the much cooler callback was Natasha doing the "thank you for your cooperation" bit from the Avengers. Since yeah remember how awesome it was in the Avengers when Natasha seemingly was acting meak and then easily took out the gangsters or manipulated Bruce or even got information from Loki? Her ability to read and use people by revealing her seemingly in a fragile state is a big reason why she is such a beloved character which quite honestly the Russos never really took advantage of. She had good moments in their movies (and good action moments in Winter Soldier and Civil War) but it feels like they never got that right again. Here though we do get that as we see the flashback of Melina and Natasha planning out how to get the edge of Dreykov with Natasha knowing first hand "oh he has that pheromone that will stop me from attacking him" and kept provoking him not only to have him reveal his plan but also so she'd hit him strong enough to break that hold and then doing it herself when she pointed out he wasn't even strong enough to do it and then knock him around. It is good to see one last useage of that from Nat. And I admit I also did like her arc here. It's clear in the flashback unlike Yelena she realized what she had been used for and wasn't as interested in this false family dynamic thus relcutant to meet up with it again and didn't want to believe it to be real preferring just to find out about her own mother. But actually finding out how much they cared and being willing to open up and trust them again and admit she formed two families and that she did see value in the system was good. And I also appreciate showing her trauma from being used also made her emphazie with the others being taken thus why stopping The Red Room again was so important to her even while on the run for other crimes.

I think the other characters and the comedy that was more subdued here worked well. Now there has been a lot of positive vibes towards Yelena but I admit I was very doubtful as she seemed kind of obnoxious in the trailers I saw and I wasn't getting that much of a good performance but you do see that in the actual movie. I really do like actually seeing how the young Yelena as this innocent 6 year old girl was super into having this family loving the American Pie song and thinking that Alexei was just taking them on a trip and having that naievete obviously taken by the program. And then when she broke free teaming up with Natasha and I admit the two of them really work well together. Though spoiled a lot by the teaser spots her mocking Natasha for her super hero posing and wondering who she's doing that for and then later doing one later to her annoyance were funny but I also really liked her having bought this jacket for herself as one of the few things that she claims was hers and being really proud of especially all the various pockets she put in it and being hurt at first when it seemed like Natasha didn't like it. And once they strayed away from making just Avengers references I do really like the two's banter and even Yelena admitting how the two were both trained killers but she's still a hidden spy while Nat is admired by a hero world wide so she doesn't have much a position to complain. Seriously part of me would of been fine having more time of the two bonding and showing them on screen but I admit the other members of the family really worked well. I love the intro of Alexei easily owning people in arm wrestling talking about how easily he beat Captain America when people pointed out "hey wait he wasn't even up when you claimed you fought him" (heh between this and this week's Loki lot of people talking smack about beating Captain America that obviously didn't) and then his happiness at escaping and Natasha and Yelena being such accomplished killers. I admit some of the moments with him could be seen as too goofy like him posing with that red guadian costume or not getting a communicator but they made him feel real enough talking about Dreykov betraying him and even trying to consuel Yelena first with his being peeded on the hands story and then actually singing that American Pie song showing their time together meant something. And I admit Melina worked. She was dry enough you would believe a betrayal of hers for long enough to be impressed by their actual plan but I liked her showing off the effect of the device with that pig she had stop breathing and then resurrected 11 seconds before it would have died and admitting about what happened to Natasha's real mom so good stuff there. Heck even the bits with Rick Mason were good which yeah I don't think his name was really said and I didn't know anything about him but he's apparently this agent guy with connections in the comic so makes sense Nat would have someone help her out and I like him pointing out how being affiliated with her gets him in trouble and Nat and Yelena tag dissing him and her later appreciating him getting her a plane when he actually had the time to do so. Not really a lot of other characters but yeah that makes this feel intimiate which actually does work as you do stick just to the main leads throughout and since you enjoy them you don't mind having down time with them as well as the action bits so yeah that stuff all works well.

Overall good film. I admit the ending tag with Valentina probably would of met more if this was her introduction not Falcon and the Winter Soldier (or they at least reshot it so now Valentina had US Agent behind her or something) and honestly the idea of Yelena going after Hawkeye isn't that much of a threat since yeah Clint would just tell Yelena what happened and I think she would believe that but that could still be a good dramatic scene if done right so... crossing my fingers on that Hawkeye series. But yeah enjoyable movie with good action and characters and felt right for what the tone of a Black Widow movie should be. I do wish Natasha had more then just this one since yeah though I guess Yelena could be the next Widow it does feel weird to have Scar Jo
 

reflection01

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I enjoyed it even more than I thought I would. I thought it was a high mid-tier MCU film.

I thought Dreykov was an excellent villain, a good change of pace from “villains with a point.” He’s just an evil man who craves power and exploits girls and women. That’s true evil right there. He may not have the Infinity Stones. He’s the type of person we truly have to fear which is a fitting villain in a grounded spy film.

I liked the family aspect of the film. Each character brought something interesting to the table. It would have been great for this film to come between Civil War and Black Panther. Given how their stories ended, they could certainly follow this up with a sequel or two. Fill in some gaps in Natasha’s story before Infinity War. Maybe the family can track down a rogue widow cell. Maybe a widow infiltrated Wakanda and the Dora Milage are on the case too. I’d love to see a widow vs. Dora Milage battle since we didn’t get one in Civil War. We could learn more about what Yelena is doing with Valentina as well.

Better late than never. Glad this worked out.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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I actually enjoyed the film and found it to be better than Captain Marvel. It's definitely a worthy MCU film in my honest opinion.

That being said, the weakest part was definitely Taskmaster as well as the identity reveal. The reveal could've been better but it didn't.
 

Yojimbo

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I was also glad to see this movie shattered my expectations. They very much made a strong movie with a strong message and resolution. They weaved the real world issue of human trafficking into the storyline (I think without it, this movie would've been real bland or lacking tone), revealed a lot of lingering questions with the Dreykov name drop in Avengers, his daughter, Hawkeye and Natasha in Budapest, the horrors of the Red Room, what she had to do to get into S.H.I.E.L.D., easter eggs like with the family narrowly avoiding S.H.I.E.L.D. on the airfield in 1995 or Ursa during the arm wrestling, peppering in some -- I guess retroactive foreshadowing with the origin of Natasha's vest in IW, going blonde, the Quinjet Steve, Nat, and Sam use, and even set up Yelena's role in the Hawkeye series. Not at all upset with just a voice cameo of Hawkeye/Clint, I think in this case, an appearance by him or any other major character would have been a distraction.

Even left the door open for Melina, Red Guardian to return. I agree there's definitely room for a sequel yet if it's decided there isn't, there are other threads to follow. Heck, they could even do a Widows series if they wanted, focusing on the trio and the liberated Widows looking for the rest Dreykov had stashed around the world. They could focus on Red Guardian's origin story - would love to see how Russia made themselves a super soldier. Maybe HYDRA had a role or no role in it. And well, there's the question of how and why Yelena fell in with Valentina and whatever group she represents and why the hell they perceive Clint as a threat. My guess is for the latter, the kill count of all the leaders of criminal organizations that Ronin racked up in just a mere amount of years was likely concluded as bad for global stability so they're not going to let Clint be re-retired.

Yelena really stole the spotlight and I'm glad. Liked her a lot and looking forward to seeing her pop up in the MCU. I mean, the vest talk. Critiquing the poser stuff and calling out Natasha on her b.s. . Her "Ha!" were pulled off well.

Melina and Red has an interesting dynamic. The electricity between them was played for laughs quite well without being groan worthy. lmao, naming the pig Alexei. The resemblance joke. My only nitpick was Melina defected to them pretty quick but retrospect I got that it was upon realizing Yelena was one of the brainwashed Widows and Nat finding the fake album. I think on first viewing, it was a bit to process because of the spy thriller component where they had to do a fake out with her and Nat switching places before the Red Room arrives at her farm and they do the reveal and flashback later on.

The twist with the MCU version of Taskmaster being Dreykov's brainwashed scarred daughter was an excellent choice to bring everything full circle and tie into the overall story. Natasha had to literally came face to face with her biggest sin. Dreykov, I'm glad they didn't play him over-the-top or a cliche Bond villain, or even just a villain with a grandiose reason for what he does. Post-Endgame, it's perfectly okay to chill with the soliloquies about fixing the universe by doing a terrible evil thing for a bit. Totally agree with reflection's assessment.

It was a surprise at how little General Ross factored into the overall movie. Kinda just there to anchor the timeline setting. Gotta say, the writers must love to come up with ways for Avengers to dig into Ross like Tony putting him on hold in Civil War and here with Nat taunting Ross over the phone about looking like he had another bypass - hot damn - so mean but we know he pretty much earned it.

Probably the one knock on the movie for me was Mason. Kinda bland and cringey. Forced love interest, idk.
 

reflection01

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They didn’t force a love interest with Mason. It was light flirting at the most. They could have made him a “Bond boy” but they didn’t. He had a minor role. He got Natasha things she needed that helped move the story along. I thought that role was done well especially since we all assumed he was really Taskmaster.

I thought it was interesting to compare the pacing of an MCU film to the MCU shows. In a show, Mason gets a backstory and has a more defined romantic interest with Natasha and we see how he commandeers a mobile home, helicopter, and jet. Or his role is eliminated all together and Natasha gets them herself.

I’d really like to see a Widows TV show about a set of newly freed widows trying to find a life, career, and love for themselves after the events of this film. I could see it as a straight up spy show like a Charlie’s Angels or maybe Alias. Or it can be a skewed take on Sex in the City.
 
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reflection01

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The box office numbers look good. Black Widow earned $80M in domestic theaters and $60M on Disney+ premiere for a $140M opening weekend. That’s 10th after all four Avengers films, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Civil War, IM 3, and GOTG2.

So the best opening weekends of MCU first solo films were Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Black Widow. These are the films former Marvel CEO Ike Permutter prevented because he thought films with women leads or mostly Black casts don’t make money. Of course, he cast his lot with the Inhumans.


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reflection01

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Probably Perlmutter but I’m sure there were and are several men like that in Marvel. That dude cost Marvel literal billions of dollars with his racist and sexist BS.

I didn’t check to see if there was a Black Widow Legends. Just watched it. Would have been a good refresher before the film.


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hobbyfan

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I could have sworn it was Joe Quesada.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was Quesada.

On to the movie. A manufactured family with Red Guardian as a "father figure"? Ehhhh, whatever. Harbour chewed up the scenery as Alexi, such that you could've gotten Yakov Smirnoff to play the part, and it wouldn't matter.

IIRC, Yelena has had a redemption arc in the books, but that teaser suggests Valentina is looking to create her own rogue team, targeting Hawkeye, one of Natasha's ex-boyfriends. And we know Val is lying about Hawkeye being responsible for Natasha's death. What purpose does it serve to lie?
 

BlackoutCreature

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IIRC, Yelena has had a redemption arc in the books, but that teaser suggests Valentina is looking to create her own rogue team, targeting Hawkeye, one of Natasha's ex-boyfriends. And we know Val is lying about Hawkeye being responsible for Natasha's death. What purpose does it serve to lie?
It's possible Valentina isn't lying per say. There's no way for her to have accurate intelligence on what really happened on Vormir. She could just be going on hearsay and assumptions and genuinely believes Hawkeye killed her.
 

Yojimbo

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7/12: I still think whatever group Valentina works for came to the conclusion that when Clint was Ronin and slattering heads of organized crime around the world -- he became a variable that upset what they perceive as the geopolitical balance they work to preserve -- and he's too much of a risk to keep alive because he could repeat his spree again if his family really does get killed off. And once Yelena came into the fold and proved she could work with them, by the time of the end tag, they decided it was time to send her to knock off Clint. And given what they ascertained about John Walker taking the serum secretly, somehow, someone close to/working under those in the small circle who knew what happened on Vormir leaked the intelligence to them or hacked some files while the makeshift Avengers base was up during the Old Cap scene in Endgame.

But some neat easter eggs/callbacks: The plane used in the 1995 scene at the start was numbered "258" and Incredible Hulk #258 happens to introduce the Winter Guard. Melina has an Iron Maiden mask in her armory closet thing. Black Widow telling Drekov 'thank you for your cooperation' was a callback to her scene with Loki on the Helicarrier in Avengers 1.

Interview with Eric Pearson.

Pearson on the post credit teaser.

Taskmaster was Tony Masters in a previous draft.

7/14: Pearson confirms in a draft, it was written footage from the end of Civil War would be reused of Tony giving Natasha the head's up to run - pretty much solving that Tony rumor.
 
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Action!

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I think the Black Widow was a great movie to watch. 9/10. I liked the voice actor performance by David Harbor.
 

Daikun

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Cutshort has finally returned after a 2-year hiatus and made a video on a cancelled R-rated version of Black Widow.

 

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