"Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020 Mini-Series)" Comic Book Talkback (Spoilers)

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Batman: The Adventures Continue - Rate and Discuss this Series!

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Pfeiffer-Pfan

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My favourite issue from the run so far. The book is definitely shaky in places (Batman seems a little too chatty), but it's still been highly enjoyable and the print version is reading so much better.

I didn't anticipate that it would be Mr Freeze desiring the Shawl of Magdalene, so that was a neat surprise. I guess Dini just couldn't resist adding one more tragic strand on to his Mr Freeze tapestry.
 
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Frontier

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So is that Wing guy a mutant or a guy in a suit? They never quite explained his deal o_O.

Yeah, Azrael is a bit overzealous when it comes to dealing with criminals. That's kind of his whole deal. At the same time it feels like the comic glossed over it to some degree aside from a line or two at the end. Felt like it maybe should have been more of a pressing issue between the two but I guess there's only so much you can get to in this kind of comic :sweat:.

I wasn't expecting to see Freeze again, but I'm not sure how I felt about his motivations. Like, on one level it makes sense that if Nora actually died Freeze would move heaven and over to try and revive her (and seeing her corpse was pretty morbid) but at the same time I preferred the take that had her alive and living her own life separated from Victor and the different sense of tragedy that instilled into their relationship. It also worked with the scene in Beyond where Victor visited Nora's grave and saw she got to live a longer life because of him :confused:.

Oh look, Jason Todd looking at Joker. I'm sure that will end well :p.
 

Yojimbo

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Yeah, I presume it just some mook in a bird suit.

I think if this were longer than two chapters, they might have delved a bit more into Azrael's more extreme stance. We might have seen him pummeling Penguin but just tossing him over the balcony was enough. But they had to quickly get to Freeze and focus on that instead. Though it was nice to see that the experience convinced Jean to work on his impulsive nature.

Boy, I thought they got grim with Freeze in "Cold Comfort" but this took it to another level. Tragic Nora still died from complications a few years after Sub-Zero. But Batman resorting to kicking the table to knock Nora's body off to shock Freeze. Oof! But at least there was a bit of finality to this one. For all we know, this could be Freeze's final capture and this is when his head is turned over to Wayne Tech where it stays until "Meltdown" or perhaps a few more battles to come.

A Joker tease. Nice. Perhaps we'll get some more back story on Jason considering their infamous connection in the comics. I guess we'll learn if this canon's Joker was responsible for what may have happened to Jason in the past. Or maybe even a hat tip to the Suicide Squad movie, Harley was also involved in "roughing" him up.
 

M.O.D.O.K.

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I'm not sure how I feel about Nora's fate. Didn't Freeze say in Batman Beyond that Nora lived a whole new life after she was cured in Sub-Zero? If this is around TNBA, then she probably didn't live that long.

I hope the Jason/Joker storyline uses the remainder of the mini-series (three issues). Just to give it a little more breathing room.
It also gives them an indirect tie-in to DC's current Joker War plans. ;)
 

Yojimbo

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I'm not sure how I feel about Nora's fate. Didn't Freeze say in Batman Beyond that Nora lived a whole new life after she was cured in Sub-Zero? If this is around TNBA, then she probably didn't live that long.
I guess she lived 5 or so years worth of a whole new life... but have to revisit "Meltdown" for the exact line to see if it's vague enough to work. The primary clue we had so far, I think, is when Tim admitted he's been Robin for almost one year.

Yeah, and I think the tie-in comics (dubiously canon as they are) showed her alive and well.
Yeah, based on what Bruce Timm has stated in the past ('if they didn't adapt it into an episode/movie it's not canon -- which of course is another weird can of worms for the current run the only difference being this run directly involves 2 of the original producer/writers so... yeah.), it's best to just consider them an AU.
 
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Cartoonfan13

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I guess she lived 5 or so years worth of a whole new life... but have to revisit "Meltdown" for the exact line to see if it's vague enough to work. The primary clue we had so far, I think, is when Tim admitted he's been Robin for almost one year.

Yeah, based on what Bruce Timm has stated in the past ('if they didn't adapt it into an episode/movie it's not canon -- which of course is another weird can of worms for the current run the only difference being this run directly involves 2 of the original producer/writers so... yeah.), it's best to just consider them an AU.
Batman: The Adventures Continue doesn't really work in the main DCAU Timeline after that Nora Fries corpse.
 
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Yojimbo

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I'm not sure how I feel about Nora's fate. Didn't Freeze say in Batman Beyond that Nora lived a whole new life after she was cured in Sub-Zero?
Follow up: Nope. All he said about her was, "I'm calling it the Nora Fries Foundation, named after my former wife."

So it was left open ended as to how long she lived after the finale of Sub-Zero. And as cruel as it is, her dying a few years later before/during the events of BTAC doesn't contradict anything.
 

Spider-Man

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I've been enjoying every issue of this series so far, but wow did this book ever do Nora Fries dirty. Just unnecessary and it leaves an awful taste in my mouth. I'll finish out the series, it's still good don't get me wrong, but this leaves a huge ugly mark on what's been up until now a thoroughly enjoyable series. What a colossal misstep.
 

iammattie

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I've been enjoying every issue of this series so far, but wow did this book ever do Nora Fries dirty. Just unnecessary and it leaves an awful taste in my mouth. I'll finish out the series, it's still good don't get me wrong, but this leaves a huge ugly mark on what's been up until now a thoroughly enjoyable series. What a colossal misstep.

This is my thought as well. I just went back and was re-reading interviews from the books crew, and one thing I found was Dini saying he was really excited about this part saying "I think it’s one of the coolest reveals we’ve done and it makes perfect sense given the lore of our series. That's one of the issues I'm most jazzed about.", but like... what part of Batman kicking a gurney that Freeze's dead wife is on makes sense with the lore of the series? Batman has always shown compassion towards the villains, especially Freeze, and this is just ridiculous. What harm would have come from allowing the shawl to stay on Nora for moments longer and Freeze getting the picture himself that it just doesn't work?

Not to mention, the whole thing just feels incredibly petty. I've seen a few interviews over the years where Dini and Timm express disdain for Sub-Zero bringing Nora back, and here it just feels like he thought "now's my chance to kill her again!", and we're left with Nora being just another fridged love interest when other writers like Ty Templeton and Jason Hall had taken the set up from Sub-Zero and used it to make Nora a much more fleshed out character in the years since.

It also just kind of feels lazy. They spent almost the whole Deathstroke arc on the mystery of Firefly and how he was badly injured, then introduce a magical healing item the next issue. Perfect set up to flesh that beat out further, but NOPE, just had to take a left turn into a surprise with no set up so that they could finally have Nora dead again like they always wanted.
 

Pfeiffer-Pfan

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Wasn't Dini a consultant on SUBZERO? If he really hated the idea, couldn't he have nixed it? He was working at WB at the time and had a good working relationship with Kirkland/MacCurdy.

Although I suppose he never thought WB would ask for more Batman episodes with TNBA.
 
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Otaku-sempai

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Wasn't Dini a consultant on SUBZERO? If he really hated the idea, couldn't he have nixed it? He was working at WB at the time and had a good working relationship with Kirkland/MacCurdy.
As a rule, consultants never have any real power or authority in show business. The exceptions is when a creator or their family has it built into their contract (J.K. Rowling; the Tolkien Estate).
 
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Frontier

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Not to mention, the whole thing just feels incredibly petty. I've seen a few interviews over the years where Dini and Timm express disdain for Sub-Zero bringing Nora back, and here it just feels like he thought "now's my chance to kill her again!", and we're left with Nora being just another fridged love interest when other writers like Ty Templeton and Jason Hall had taken the set up from Sub-Zero and used it to make Nora a much more fleshed out character in the years since.
Wow, that's...kind of morbid. I guess they didn't want Freeze to have any kind of satisfying ending (well, aside from Beyond I guess) :(.
 

Cartoonfan13

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This is my thought as well. I just went back and was re-reading interviews from the books crew, and one thing I found was Dini saying he was really excited about this part saying "I think it’s one of the coolest reveals we’ve done and it makes perfect sense given the lore of our series. That's one of the issues I'm most jazzed about.", but like... what part of Batman kicking a gurney that Freeze's dead wife is on makes sense with the lore of the series? Batman has always shown compassion towards the villains, especially Freeze, and this is just ridiculous. What harm would have come from allowing the shawl to stay on Nora for moments longer and Freeze getting the picture himself that it just doesn't work?

Not to mention, the whole thing just feels incredibly petty. I've seen a few interviews over the years where Dini and Timm express disdain for Sub-Zero bringing Nora back, and here it just feels like he thought "now's my chance to kill her again!", and we're left with Nora being just another fridged love interest when other writers like Ty Templeton and Jason Hall had taken the set up from Sub-Zero and used it to make Nora a much more fleshed out character in the years since.

It also just kind of feels lazy. They spent almost the whole Deathstroke arc on the mystery of Firefly and how he was badly injured, then introduce a magical healing item the next issue. Perfect set up to flesh that beat out further, but NOPE, just had to take a left turn into a surprise with no set up so that they could finally have Nora dead again like they always wanted.
Paul and Allan Should Have Read Gotham Adventures #51 and Batman Adventures Vol 2 #15 before writing BTAC. Honestly They owe The fans, Ty Templeton and Jason Hall a big Apology for being so petty.
 
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Yojimbo

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Wow, that's...kind of morbid. I guess they didn't want Freeze to have any kind of satisfying ending (well, aside from Beyond I guess) :(.
Yeah, perhaps he did do something good posthumously after "Meltdown" if the Nora Fries Foundation continued on after he died.

Bruce Timm did comment on Subzero back in 2005 (no link because I had the old toonzone one that doesn't work and we can't search post history YET of a user) and he didn't seem too negative about it.
actually, i thought bringing nora back to life was a nicely unexpected twist, and genuinely poignant, definitely one of the best sequences in the movie....even though it DID force us to come up with a new direction for mr. freeze, hence the controversial "head on legs" bit....but heck, we'd pretty much done the whole nora thing to death anyway, and as someone else here noted, the "head on legs" incarnation ultimately paved the way for "meltdown" (which i too think is a pretty kickass episode), so it's all good....
EDIT: Come to think of it, I think the original plan was to adapt "White Christmas" from the Holiday Annual but then they found out about Sub-Zero and came up with the story "Cold Comfort" and in "White Christmas," I'm pretty sure Nora had died. Which is weird in itself of a reason to pin on Sub-Zero because how things were left at the end of "Deep Freeze" with Victor reunited with frozen Nora and he got away. "White Christmas" opens with Victor escaping Arkham and using his snow maker to generate snow at Nora's grave for their 10th wedding anniversary. I suppose originally "White Christmas" was meant to take place between "Heart of Ice" and "Deep Freeze" since both came out around the same time in 1994 and that grave was just for show and/or it was part of Grant Walker's machinations.
 
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TheVileOne

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You have a DC Universe and HBO Max streaming services. They are writing new stories with Paul Dini. Why not just roll up a truck of money to Dini and Timm's homes and ask them if they want to make a new animated show?
 

Frontier

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You have a DC Universe and HBO Max streaming services. They are writing new stories with Paul Dini. Why not just roll up a truck of money to Dini and Timm's homes and ask them if they want to make a new animated show?
I think there's probably a lot of factors that go into something like that. If they did do a new cartoon, would it be to sell these new DCAU figures like the comic is?
 
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iammattie

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Bruce Timm did comment on Subzero back in 2005 (no link because I had the old toonzone one that doesn't work and we can't search post history YET of a user) and he didn't seem too negative about it.
Interesting. I know I've seen a statement from one of the DCAU producers at one point that said they hadn't even watched the film because they didn't like where they knew it went. I wish I had been better at keeping tabs and documenting all this stuff as I came across it. I may be conflating accounts from different people. I know more recently Bruce Timm wasn't quite as kind when recalling the film
 

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