"Batman: Caped Crusader" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

[b.t.]

So Bruce are we to believe this series is canon to the Max Fleischer Superman shorts due to Lois Lane's appearance?

Lois and Jimmy are just visiting from Earth Easter Egg.

 

[CyberCubed]

Watched all 10 episodes, really enjoyed them all. I like how it's not just re-treading B:TAS or any other Batman cartoon, it has new takes on almost every character while keeping true to their roots. Admittedly Harley is the most different so far (not counting female Penguin), as she's so unlike the happy-go-lucky and ditzy Harley we're all used to, but I think it's an interesting spin on her. I'm not sure if she'll meet Joker in Season 2, but as of now she works on her own.

Really surprised by the ghost episode. I thought Season 1 would keep things grounded and not include any supernatural elements. Thought for sure it was going to be a Scooby Doo thing where the ghost would be a projection or something and they'd catch the real guy doing it who was behind it.

Does seeing 4 kids named after Robin's means we won't get the real Dick Grayson in this show at some point? I don't expect to see him, but kind of a bummer if it means he's already out. Loved the Killer Croc cameo, I would have liked to see more villains in background roles similar to this where they're not the main focus of the ep but still appear.

Bullock seems irredeemable in this show, not unlike the loveable B:TAS version. I liked Barbara and Catwoman and everyone else so far. Kind of also surprised to see Two-Face's well...fate, so early in the shows run. Makes me wonder if villains will mostly be a one-and-done thing in this show besides a few, unlike the Saturday Morning cartoon style of most Batman cartoons where the villains just randomly escape Arkham Asylum every other week.

 

[Medinnus]

My attempt at the reimagined Harley Quin!

 

[PicardMan]

I feel so bad for not digging this series like everyone else here. I think it's my DCAU nostalgia preventing me from enjoying post DCAU things. This wasn't a bad Batman cartoon, just felt a little formulaic and by the numbers for a Batman adaptation. Man, BTAS, the Christian Bale and Robert Pattinson movies have spoiled us. Didn't feel as groundbreaking as X-Men 97, Invincible, or even My Adventures with Superman. What seems to set this one apart is that there's cussing (not much blood). This show seemed to have an okay median between having lesser known characters and A listers, even if some depictions were head scratching. I didn't dig what they did with Harley and female Penguin wasn't that interesting a spin on the character. The King Tut cameo was a cool thing from the show, one of the few villain moments I actually really liked despite being so inconsequential. Despite most modern superhero cartoons embracing serialization, this was pretty villain of the week, which kinda disappointed me. Batman himself had an okay depiction and some early episodes focusing on his Bruce Wayne persona were well done, but otherwise this was a generic Batman by the end of the series. Shirley Walker's music still cannot be topped and neither can Conroy's performance. It just didn't seem to innovate as much as other modern superhero cartoons and kinda feels unremarkable. I'm glad for the people who enjoyed this and just feel upset this didn't appeal to me as much as I'd hoped. My BTAS nostalgia has ruined my ability to enjoy other Batman cartoons

 

[penguincobblepot]

i went from being so worried and uptight about rumors about a female penguin to ABSOLUTELY LOVING the final result. this is why you just trust the process and wait for the finished project before getting all whiny.

oswalda is fabulous. giving empress of gotham vibes. i adore her and love when creatives like mr. timm add so much to a character just when you think you’ve seen it all. i love that her cabaret dress has the feathers up top and flows down to form penguin feet and a penguin tail at the bottom! how cool is that character design?! and to think i doubted the vision when there were just mean descriptions to base my opinions off of :-/ here are my thoughts:

1. the hate feels forced. all i’m seeing is “why is she a woman?!” i thought the same thing BEFORE i saw the actual design and characterization. my answer is: why not? bruce timm gave us two iconic penguin on different ends of the spectrum (design-wise and characterization-wise). we’ve seen the supervillain devito appearance and the gentleman of crime vibe why not try something new? and it worked imo. she is a full fledged character. empress of gotham. big-beaked terror. mother of crime. fabulous with feathers!! nothing is more touching as a penguin fan than to sit there and say “wow, after all these years loving this character, there is still new and curious ways to view them. just when i thought i’ve seen it all, someone can still add to my love of the character with a new portrayal!” it’s okay if its not your cup of tea, but the hate comments seem to be coming from a source of insecurity and a complete misunderstanding of the character. she has a beak. check. has a monocle. check. has a hat. check. has an umbrella. check SHE’S “THE FREAKIN PENGUIN ”
2. i pray to god that this forced hate doesn’t sway ANY of the creatives from using her in season 2. to the hate i say: BRING IT ON!! i was hoping to see more of oswalda and i only got one episode with her. i’ll be devastated if we don’t see her next season. i want her to hunt down her son. i want to see the full extent of her empire. i want to see her have control to the same levels as thorne. i want her to have a similar presence of screen time and popping up like thorne. i want to see another cabaret performance. i want her in a warehouse with all her henchmen with batman busting out of the roof. i want to see gun umbrellas. rebuild her empire after being caught by batman. GIVE IT TO ME!! the hate should just fuel some top notch writing for her. her story doesn’t deserve to be over yet because of trolls with pea brained imaginations. i want her in season 2!!
3. someone is “claiming” that she was in more than just one episode when they saw footage last year. idk if there’s any validity to this, but i hope scenes didn’t get cut of her… i wanted more. was she always just in one episode?
4. @b.t. if you’re out there, THANK YOU FOR OSWALDA. as a penguin fan you checked all the boxes. and i hope to see her in season two. sorry i ever doubted you, she is LEGENDARY and i can’t stop thinking about her!! adore this woman

 

[Yojimbo]

Episode 2 "...And Be A Villain" - August 1, 2024

I think this one is going to be a favorite of mine. What a great way to honor golden age Hollywood. Roger Corman's The Pit and the Pendulum with Vincent Price and Barbara Steele. The famous Flynn and Rathbone duel in Robin Hood. The mystery angle. The detective story angle. The Universal horror angle. Also been waiting a long time for 1:1 Basil Karlo-Clayface story. All the while, a focus on Detective Montoya and Batman assessing her as a potential ally. Also been wondering how long before we see a little racism - and there it was. Veiled but there. When Basil posted as Darryl Manning and intimating Yvonne wasn't his "type." Oof.

Episode 3 "Kiss of the Catwoman" - August 1, 2024

Loved the Catwoman's comeuppance at the end with Greta.

A couple interesting guest appearances - the debut of Harleen. Eel O'Brian as a newspaper photographer - and even a glimpse into the Wayne murder. Didn't expect the Catmobile or Hecate to appear. Chuckled when Hecate finally collapsed. Another bonus was Batman handily taking Flass and Bullock out, and lol didn't care O'Brian got it on film. Also interesting was Dent shielding the upper class - here dropping the charges on Selina. The episode definitely gave a lot of food for thought against the backdrop of Catwoman's crime spree.

 

[Millicay]

Also been wondering how long before we see a little racism - and there it was. Veiled but there. When Basil posted as Darryl Manning and intimating Yvonne wasn't his "type." Oof.

Huh, I took this as him insinuating that he was gay, not racist.

Frankly I don't think we'll see a lot of racism openly discussed really, one of the criticisms I heard is that the show is not historically accurate, but I just don't think it's supposed to be.

Harley is Asian, there's some very open LGBTQ representation, there are women and african american people working in the police force, hell the commissioner of police is african american and nobody makes a big deal about any of it, now I'm no expert in US history but I do get the sense that all of these things would've been treated very differently were it actually 1939.

I think that the show had two choices, either make it an accurate representation of 1939 and acknowledge all the racism and prejudice of the era (which seems like it would have been limiting for some of the stories they wanted to tell) or use the era more as an aesthetic choice but with modern sensibilities, in a similar way to how BTAS looked like the 1950s but wasn't really the 1950s. They just went with the second choice.

 

[Karkull]

I'm with Millicay in that it was "Darryl" implying that he was LGBT+. Even in an accepting society there will be people who choose to be closeted. Also, keep in mind that this is the '30s / '40s, and a lot of those movie studios had those crazy "morality clauses" in actors' contracts that required adhering to strict behavior. Finally, remember that line from The Simpsons where Homer's manager with the Be Sharps wanted him to hide that he was married: "Women are going to want to have sex with you, and we want them to think they can."

I've been busy making screen captures, as I'm planning on doing individual episode reviews. Anyway, I put this together today, and I thought I'd share:

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Episode 1 - In Treacherous Waters

An excellent ''pilot'' episode that fully introduces us to all the major players in a fun and concise manner. I absolutely love this take on The Penguin and she was effectively used to establish the stakes and threat the series wants to present. Minnie Driver was brilliantly slimy and cunning in the part and I hope we see more of her in season two.

Bruce's Playboy persona was highly amusing and certainly a more arched performance than we have seen in a while. I imagine this is where Linklater is having the most fun at the moment. I was surprised to see the Bat-sub just popping up out of nowhere, considering Tucker hinted at Batman having very limited tools/vehicles as the series starts.

I do wonder if using the B:TAS GCPD background model was simply to save time/energy as it was going to be blown up at the end of the episode anyway or if it was purposely a visual metaphor... a sort of ''This ain't your Daddy's B:TAS!'' sort of thing.

All in all, this one hooked me right in.

Episode 2 - ... And Be a Villain

This is what I was hoping for when the series was announced. Really adored the ''Classic Hollywood'' setting and the starring role for Renee Montoya. Her relationship with Gordon is really cute and it was fun to follow the mystery angle, with all the surprises being thrown in. I got serious Darkman vibes from the episode, especially with Clayface's design.

Dan Donohue gave a fantastic performance and fully evoked the time period beautifully. I actually like that they didn't try to make us feel sympathy for him at any point. He had a great career and it was just never enough. His own desperation and desire lead him down a dark path and he paid the consequences.

I'm missing iconic Batman imagery, something Bruce Timm is always so good at, so it was nice to see some memorable shots with the character standing in the alleyway and crashing through the sky-light.

Oh, and more swashbuckling Batman soon, please.

 

[Yojimbo]

I'm with Millicay in that it was "Darryl" implying that he was LGBT+. Even in an accepting society there will be people who choose to be closeted. Also, keep in mind that this is the '30s / '40s, and a lot of those movie studios had those crazy "morality clauses" in actors' contracts that required adhering to strict behavior. Finally, remember that line from The Simpsons where Homer's manager with the Be Sharps wanted him to hide that he was married: "Women are going to want to have sex with you, and we want them to think they can."

Good points from both of you. That makes more sense in retrospect.

 

[b.t.]

Manning’s ‘She’s…not my type’ exchange with Montoya is an allusion to the Old Hollywood practice of having queer Leading Men disguise their sexual orientation by being seen in public dating beautiful young starlets.

Oh, and the cat that Selina impulsively steals isn’t meant to be Hecate (I’m embarrassed to say I actually had to google her), it’s Miss Kitty. No, not Selina’s cat from BATMAN RETURNS, the beautiful neighborhood stray who adopted my wife and me six years ago. And she doesn’t collapse after Selina abandons her, she’s just nonchalantly grooming.

Fun fact: ALL of the cats in the episode are based on real-life kitties owned by CAPED CRUSADER crew members.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Manning’s ‘She’s…not my type’ exchange with Montoya is an allusion to the Old Hollywood practice of having queer Leading Men disguise their sexual orientation

If only it was an old practice.

 

[Karkull]

Manning’s ‘She’s…not my type’ exchange with Montoya is an allusion to the Old Hollywood practice of having queer Leading Men disguise their sexual orientation by being seen in public dating beautiful young starlets.

Oh, and the cat that Selina impulsively steals isn’t meant to be Hecate (I’m embarrassed to say I actually had to google her), it’s Miss Kitty. No, not Selina’s cat from BATMAN RETURNS, the beautiful neighborhood stray who adopted my wife and me six years ago. And she doesn’t collapse after Selina abandons her, she’s just nonchalantly grooming.

Fun fact: ALL of the cats in the episode are based on real-life kitties owned by CAPED CRUSADER crew members.

I noticed that Miss Kitty has a clipped ear, implying that she's spayed. She's a lovely girl.

 

[b.t.]

Also, since it wasn’t really Manning speaking, we don’t even know for sure if he actually was gay, or if it was just Karlo vindictively thinking he could smear Manning by insinuating that he was — not realizing that he was speaking to a gay police detective

(Narrator voice: he was absolutely gay.)

We’re definitely having our cake and eating it too by how we ‘anachronistically’ treat the general acceptance of working women, LGBT persons and People of Color in positions of authority in a 1940s environment, but there are a few (possibly too subtle) signs that sexism, racism and homophobia are still around — as they obviously are today, unfortunately. In ‘Night of the Hunters’, the Mayor snidely suggests in the middle of his rant that Gordon was only appointed Commissioner for PR purposes. And earlier in the same episode, when Bullock complains to Gordon about Montoya being in charge of the task force, ‘Do you really think the men are gonna take orders from that —‘ we can only guess what the next word out of his mouth would have been if Gordon hadn’t cut him off, but I guarantee it would have been something very ugly.

 

[RoyalRubble]

Managed to watch all of the episodes, and enjoyed them. I don't have a lot to comment at the moment, so here are some thoughts on a few of the episodes. I'll comment on the rest later on, maybe even additional notes for these episodes as well, but this will have to do, for now.

"In Treacherous Waters"

Pretty good introduction to most of the main characters. I like this take on Batman/Bruce. Batman was cool and efficient enough and Bruce's antics at the party were fun. I mean it was all an act but it worked. Voice acting is solid. His interactions with Alfred Pennyworth seem to be off to a good start. Plus, Barbara Gordon and Harvey Dent and you can tell there's some animosity between them. And the ever present mobsters in Gotham, with Thorne. And well, Flass & Bullock, though I wasn't really expecting the latter to be in cahoots with the mob.

I liked this Lady Penguin. A bit weird to look at, but that could usually be said about the regular Penguin as well. Her plans and actions were intriguing enough and I also liked the secret weapon on top of the Iceberg Lounge. Hope to see more of her in future episodes, Penguin in general is one of Batman's most recurring rogues I think.

"...And Be A Villain"

Nice to see a more classic take on the Basil Karlo Clayface. The murder mystery was handled fine, and the atmosphere for this episode was suitably creepy. Batman's detective work was cool but I also liked the more swashbuckling side of the mission, especially the sword fight on the stairway. I also liked the focus on Montoya, who also did her own investigation and Batman did consider her as a potential ally.

"Kiss Of The Catwoman"

Nice spotlight for Selina/Catwoman. Her classic outfit was cool. Voice acting was also especially swell. Her maid was great, too. Batman trying to get away from Catwoman's nonsense was an interesting angle. I presume we will see her again, eventually. Wonder how their relationship will progress.

Harleen Quinzel was a nice addition to the cast and working as Bruce's psychiatrist no less. Not a lot to comment on all that but the flashbacks to Bruce's childhood (and especially the last one from Alfred's point of view), were effective.

Also surprising to see Eel O'Brien, as a reporter. Him getting super powers might be a stretch, but this was a fun cameo for now.

"The Night Of The Hunters"

Firebug was a pretty nice villain, if only for an episode. The stakes were higher than in previous episodes and things became pretty intense by the end. Flass & Bullock getting sort of a promotion despite their bad attitudes, that should lead to some more interesting developments.

Also, Fleischer Studios Lois Lane. Sure, why not. I welcome the cameo. Vicky Vale was more than simply cameo-ing on My Adventures With Superman.

 

[Medinnus]

Ladies and gentlemen... the Gentleman Ghost!

 

[MatthewP]

ngl when the first glimpses of nocturna were leaked, i totes’ expected her to be an adult who turned batman into a vampire, considering this was one of the things timm was so adamant on back then

i still wonder if they’re gonna do that actually

 

[RoyalRubble]

"The Stress Of Her Regard"

Harley Quinn, without the Joker, worked surprisingly well. More creepy than amusing as a harlequin is usually supposed to be, but it worked. The scenes with her patients were interesting (wasn't expecting King Tut to show up). I think she mentioned a Doctor Crane as her professor in an earlier episode and if that's supposed to be the Scarecrow, it all fits.

I also liked Harleen's personal life, like her interactions with Barbara and especially Renee. I presume we haven't seen the last of her either, so things could get crazier next time she drops by.

"Night Ride"

It was nice seeing Gentleman Ghost, and him being a real ghost and not some guy in a mask. Wasn't sure just how much supernatural stuff the show would include, but I don't mind at all.

I didn't know Linton (Papa) Midnite, so I had to look him up. Pretty cool guest appearance here. If this was say, Justice League Action they would have just squeezed in another appearance from John Constantine.

Also fun seeing more from Lucius Fox, and Alfred. Batman admitting he can't do all this without his faithful butler. Wonder when Lucius learns, if he ever does.

And Dent agreeing Thorne to help him in his campaign, is an ominous way to end the story.

"Moving Target"

Really cool, intense episode. The twist towards the end about the hit on Gordon was pretty clever.

Nice interactions between the Gotham Police members, especially Commissioner Gordon and Barbara.

Corrigan was a surprise, if that's supposed to be Jim Corrigan. Between him, Midnite and Eel O'Brien before, this is kind of what I was hoping for on the show, not exactly team-ups or guest-stars or anything, but squeezing in characters like this. I was expecting Slam Bradley actually, instead of Corrigan.

Onomatopoeia was pretty fun and his gimmick was handled well enough.

 

[Karkull]

Anyone else notice that, on Caped Crusader, the female characters have differing body types? One of the complaints that the DCAU often got was that the women all had the same elfin quality. This time there's more diversity (compare Catwoman and Barbara Gordon to Renee Montoya and Dr. Quinzel). And let's not forget the older, busty Penguin and the adolescent Natalia Knight. They really did knock representation out of the park this time.

Speaking of which, here's some new Harley for you:

 

[Yojimbo]

Oh, and the cat that Selina impulsively steals isn’t meant to be Hecate (I’m embarrassed to say I actually had to google her), it’s Miss Kitty. No, not Selina’s cat from BATMAN RETURNS, the beautiful neighborhood stray who adopted my wife and me six years ago. And she doesn’t collapse after Selina abandons her, she’s just nonchalantly grooming.

Fun fact: ALL of the cats in the episode are based on real-life kitties owned by CAPED CRUSADER crew members.

I meant the black panther she sics on Batman in the museum. I confused myself because Hecate was a black panther in cold open with Catwoman on James Tucker's The Brave and The Bold whereas in most appearances, she's usually a black cat. My mistake!