"Batman: Caped Crusader (HBO Max)" Animated Series News & Discussion (Spoilers)

Pfeiffer-Pfan

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Liu did say he was working on something exciting during Soul of the Dragon press (although I got the feeling it was without Timm).

Someone should ask him on twitter if he and Timm have anymore DTV's lined up (as we know he's not doing Injustice). He usually answers and it would let us know if Timm squeezed one more DTV into his schedule before starting work on this show.
 

The Overlord

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Fans tend to want what is worst for their fandom. "Yay! Bloodthirsty deaths! Batman as the Punisher!" It's why I believe creators need to almost always ignore their input. We are not good for them.

Mods, please merge this double-post. I have some very important things to say and nobody else has gone yet. Please indulge me for breaking the rules this once. What I need is the super Mod powers you guys seem to have that let you both update a post and have it read as new. :) I digress.

I've been sitting and thinking about me saying that fans are bad for their fandoms. And I think it's probably true. I think a vast majority of fans, if given the opportunity to be in charge of things, would absolutely destroy the best things about their fandom.

Batman never killing people is probably the best thing about the character. Superman has the same code and is admirable about it because he exercises restraint using the amazing powers he has. But Batman's code is more impressive to me because Batman's fighting style is to get in the trenches and most of the people he fights don't have superpowers to protect them.

Ostensibly the code exists because the writers don't want Batman to be a bad role model for kids. Frankly the rule is sort of unnecessary if you think about it. Cops often kill criminals in the line of duty if need be (and often if the need not be) and society just accepts that. The thing is rules HAVE to be different for vigilantes who operate outside the law. The tricky thing is that since Batman became a member of the Justice League, he isn't really operating outside the law anymore. So doesn't the code seem outdated?

Whether it is or it isn't, I like it in place because it makes Batman seem incredibly awesome, diligent, and yes, professional in every fight he wins (and even the few he loses). To be blunt it is not remotely realistic that nobody dies when Batman is fighting them. Because Batman doesn't have superpowers, and neither does the Joker, in a real-world scenario Batman is gonna fight the Joker just the once. The Joker is either gonna kill Batman or Batman is gonna accidentally kill the Joker. In combat scenarios, the level of force you use against a person cannot usually be controlled, depending on how sideways things go during the fight. If the Joker is feeling particularly vicious, Batman may need to respond in kind, and a real person would accidentally kill the Joker in that moment. How many murders on the news have we heard about where the killer is devastated because he never meant to hit the guy that hard? That never happens to Batman. Which is unusual.

The fact that Batman doesn't kill anyone ever isn't realistic. Stipulated. Do you know what it IS? Amazing. Batman having such a level of control during fights with mortal bad guys, despite the real level of risk involved for Batman every night make Batman a total pro and makes every cop everywhere look like a real clown, especially because he does it all without guns. Batman having a level of control in the comics that no real person can have in our Universe doesn't have to be considered either watered-down OR unrealistic. We can just say it's unusual and that Batman is amazing.

Why don't we want Batman to be amazing? Why do some people in this thread want Batman to be as sloppy and lazy as the Punisher? Why do people think Batman will be a better franchise if Batman is worse at his job? Does that make ANY level of sense to you?

Fans if given the chance to be put in charge would destroy their favorite superhero franchises in short order. And it's the best things about them they'd come for first. Like the fact that Batman is such a crazy skilled fighter than he never accidentally kills someone, even though almost everyone he's trying to fight is trying to kill him.

"Boy, I sure wish Batman were less impressive and amazing." Does that strike anyone else as a good wish for the franchise? If not, maybe stop suggesting the new show take its cues from the era of Batman when it was markedly worse. Just a thought.

Also, this series will likely be for kids, so Batman will not be killing people.

I think one can like the Punisher and Batman while acknowledging they are completely different characters and Batman is far more sympathetic than the Punisher, Batman is a hero despite some issues he may have, Punisher is an anti-hero or a villain depending on the story, most of the people who write the Punisher think he is messed up and not a role model, Batman has friends and a home, Punisher is a total loner, Batman can have healthy relationships, Punisher can't. I do think Batman lives in a more colorful, unrealistic world than the Punisher, but that works for Batman. Batman fights over the top supervillains with gimmicks, while Punisher fights guys who could be from Criminal Minds.
 

Mostezli

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I think one can like the Punisher and Batman while acknowledging they are completely different characters
I'm fine with Batman committing defensive/protective manslaughter. Besides the things you've already stated, he also should have gotten to a point in his adult life when he's overcome the death of his parents because of those healthy relationships. Yet he continues to choose to be the dark knight to this gothic kingdom of decay. Yeah, it's a good thing he fights villains so super that they don't get hurt as conventionally or can survive in unrealistic ways. That's why there's so much focus made to who those villains are through an understanding of human psychology & sociology.
For everyone else, he's still fighting them / brutalizing them, without a firearm, to a level which would land them in respirator hospital beds & permanent damage - "still alive, but barely breathing." Heck, even Batman ends up in that situation, but as the hero the physical damage is never so debilitating that he stops his caped crusade.

Punisher punishes. Whether it's out of revenge for past aggressions or stopping future ones because the accused he's judged must be executed. He strikes first whenever possible & strikes the absolute hardest & the most absurd as his adaptations have shown.
 

RoyalRubble

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Let's please get back to actually discussing Batman: Caped Crusader and drop this "should Batman kill?" debate. It's not really the place for this and starting to get too much off-topic. Continue the conversation via private messages if you feel the need, but let's bring the focus of this thread back on the upcoming show.
 

Frontier

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Liu did say he was working on something exciting during Soul of the Dragon press (although I got the feeling it was without Timm).

Someone should ask him on twitter if he and Timm have anymore DTV's lined up (as we know he's not doing Injustice). He usually answers and it would let us know if Timm squeezed one more DTV into his schedule before starting work on this show.
Considering how far in advance they work on the DTV's, I wouldn't be surprised if he had at least one or two still in the pipeline before he started production, but I guess that depends on when it started...
 

Yojimbo

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Liu did say he was working on something exciting during Soul of the Dragon press (although I got the feeling it was without Timm).

Someone should ask him on twitter if he and Timm have anymore DTV's lined up (as we know he's not doing Injustice). He usually answers and it would let us know if Timm squeezed one more DTV into his schedule before starting work on this show.
True, in February (~54 minute mark), Liu said he's 'helping out on projects and ramping up to solo produce something' and said he's not involved on Injustice. He have boarded on one or two more DTVs.
 

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