Batman Beyond "The Call, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Stu]

So yeah. The Call.

 

[b.t.]

i love you amazing spidey!

 

[Supremus]

So yeah. The Call.

Heh, and you guys think those new non-spoiler rules are going to work? I love you too, Amazing Spidey.

 

[Stu]

i love you amazing spidey!

Heh, and you guys think those new non-spoiler rules are going to work? I love you too, Amazing Spidey.

So yeah. The Call/Amazing Spidey appreciation thread it seems.

 

[Stu]

Dark oranged text is here to save the day.

Can we please get back on topic?

I'll start by saying that I enjoyed part one. Before JL/JLU started, I wasn't a big fan of the League, but seeing as how much I enjoyed BB, I was really looking forward to see the Timm/Dini take on them. I must admit, I thought the roster was a little small, but hell, I like smaller rosters. I wasn't especially impressed with the few minutes we saw of Micron, or Superman's new design, but everyone else was pretty cool.

The opening Superman Vs Inque scene was awesome. I thought the fact that Superman was practically immortal was a little wasted on Batman Beyond, I know the show didn't want to do too much from the old Batman show, bring back too many of thier characters etc, but I always wanted to see a World's Finest style team up between the two, possibly in a Knight Time style role, with them joining together in order to find a missing Bruce Wayne.

Part 2 however, whilst fun, completly lacks logic. I mean, completly. Jim Harvey's explanation back on page one works pretty well, but again, this is the viewer trying to cover a plot hole the size of The Fortress Of Solitude.

There was a lot of potential with Superman Beyond, but simply put, the show was cut off before they got to do anything. Maybe one day, we'll go back to the future.

Having said that, damn, it was a fun ride. ***

 

[Crambam]

I HEREBY DECREE THAT "THE CALL" SHALL HENCEFORTH BE STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD!!
==================

Sweet. It's good to be the Bruce Timm.

Now can you talk to Rick Berman about wiping out the last ten years of Star Trek?

You can keep DS9 but anything else after All Good Things has to go.

Look how well it works. The Call is no longer canon. Therefore, all whining about that episode now stops. As for the other stuff, we all know that somehow, the whole JLU will band together, stop all of this, and history will be reset, with slight differences. One of which will be that The Call will no longer be canon. Because Bruce Timm said so.

The whole restarting history thing worked so well for Hal Jordan anyway.

 

[Style]

this just in: the de-canonization virus is racing uncontrollably throughout all repeat ALL dc animated timelines! as we saw just moments ago, the virus appeared to be losing velocity right after gobbling up "the last laugh", but then the wind shifted, causing a massive flare-up....the virus then hopped the freeway and started wreaking havok every which way throughout TEEN TITANS....capt. reg thumbtwiddle of the paratime fire dept had this to say....

"right now we're trying to cut a firebreak through the middle of "car trouble" since no one really likes that one anyway...but the real problem is all them chibi scenes scattered all over the place....yeah, they're cuter than baby kittens, but that fourth-wall-breakin' stuff is worse than dry grass, just pure rocket-fuel for this nitpickin' cosmic firestorm....and with THE BATMAN just sittin' on the other side of this hill, oh lordy...well, we're doing the best we can..."

stly92: So, that's it, it's all gone?

b.t.: Yes.

stly92: No DCAU. No Teen Titans. What do we do now?

b.t.: We rebuild. But something tells me you aren't going to miss JLU, what with all those JLU vs. TT threads and all.

stly92: It's not that b.t. It's not that at ALL.

b.t.: Then what.

stly92: I love JLU. I always have. sure, I've been disappointed with this episode or that, but seeing the devastation that virus caused...

b.t.: What are you saying.

stly92: *sniffle* It took so many good things, the call, Last Laugh, I was afraid it might... take you, too.

b.t.: ...come on partner. It'll be fine. I've got some work to do. *Sprouts wings and flys off into horizon.

stly92: *tearing up* Good-bye.

 

[b.t.]

old chum, i don't know whether to laugh or cry....now THAT'S worth risking the wrath of spidey for....brilliant....

a few months back i happened to be discussing The Swiss Cheese That Is "The Call" with alan burnett (i can't for the life of me remember how it came up), and i asked him, "explain to me again why the starro-controlled-superman recruited terry, with the expressed intent of finding out who the traitor was, when he HIMSELF was said traitor?" alan told me with an absolute straight face that it was superman himself (NOT starro) subconsciously fighting starro's influence...i looked at him for a long moment...he grinned, shrugged and said, "yeah, i know...pretty lame, huh?"

 

[Maxie Zeus]

alan told me with an absolute straight face that it was superman himself (NOT starro) subconsciously fighting starro's influence. i looked at him for a long moment.

Yes, this definitely deserves the chastening stare of the Perry Head.

So, Starro can put Superman's consciousness to sleep but gets dragged around willy-nilly as his subconscious fumbles about trying to stop the world-conqueror? Is Starro in control when Superman goes to Gotham City, or is he just along for the ride? Who's speaking when, in part 2, Superman accuses the rest of the league of all being traitors--Starro or Superman's subconscious?

I love the ep and I'll just go along with it, but I'm also going to pretend that my private theory is the correct one: Starro is "old," we're told. I say he's also getting senile and can't keep straight whether he's using Superman or if he is Superman.

 

[b.t.]

I love the ep and I'll just go along with it, but I'm also going to pretend that my private theory is the correct one: Starro is "old," we're told. I say he's also getting senile and can't keep straight whether he's using Superman or if he is Superman.

now that is the best theory yet...me like!...as james mason said to shelley winters in "lolita":

"i can explain everything...you're CRAZY!"

and why exactly is starro forcing superman to blow up neo-metropolis in part one? i guess it's all just a distraction so superman can take out warhawk without being noticed...but nah, that's loco....i dunno, maxie's theory is starting to make more and more sense....

also, starro isn't really "the last of his kind" as aquagirl says, if he can suddenly, spontaneously reproduce lots and lots of baby starros without the help of a mrs. starro...

 

[All-Star 1.5]

now that is the best theory yet...me like!...as james mason said to shelley winters in "lolita":

"i can explain everything...you're CRAZY!"

and why exactly is starro forcing superman to blow up neo-metropolis in part one? i guess it's all just a distraction so superman can take out warhawk without being noticed...but nah, that's loco....i dunno, maxie's theory is starting to make more and more sense....

also, starro isn't really "the last of his kind" as aquagirl says, if he can suddenly, spontaneously reproduce lots and lots of baby starros without the help of a mrs. starro...

I thought he was just asexual or that he used some of the JLU's tech to either clone or genetically modify himself.

 

[Fone Bone]

I thought he was just asexual or that he used some of the JLU's tech to either clone or genetically modify himself.

Still makes it pointless for him to be on the Preserver's ship.

 

[Crambam]

alan told me with an absolute straight face that it was superman himself (NOT starro) subconsciously fighting starro's influence...i looked at him for a long moment...he grinned, shrugged and said, "yeah, i know...pretty lame, huh?"===========================

At least is sort of helps. I think a lot of the problems could have been avoided with a line to that effect. But the episode itself suggests the exact opposite. They said that Starro was in control of Superman for years, and that when Superman came out of it, he remembered absolutely nothing. Of course that's another problem. YEARS???

 

[Maxie Zeus]

Of course that's another problem. YEARS???

Why is "years" a problem?

 

[Style]

a few months back i happened to be discussing The Swiss Cheese That Is "The Call" with alan burnett (i can't for the life of me remember how it came up), and i asked him, "explain to me again why the starro-controlled-superman recruited terry, with the expressed intent of finding out who the traitor was, when he HIMSELF was said traitor?" alan told me with an absolute straight face that it was superman himself (NOT starro) subconsciously fighting starro's influence...i looked at him for a long moment...he grinned, shrugged and said, "yeah, i know...pretty lame, huh?"

I always assumed that Starro did it to deflect suspicion away from himself in the eyes of the League and Team Batman. *Shrugs.*

Oh, was it supposed to be Superman who launched those fire bombs in the first place? That was never clear. I always assumed it was the work of 90-year-old Lex Luthor or something. *Shrugs again.*

 

[Crambam]

Why is "years" a problem?



=======================

Because he's Superman. The idea that the greatest hero in comics history is under some aliens' control for years, and comes out of it with no memory, is very difficult to accept as a long time fan of the character.

 

[Knight]

So Superman's character was subconsciously reaching out for help when it recruited Batman. Very interesting. Atleast it helps with why he was doing some of what he was doing. Its good to have b.t. here for his insightful character reasoning. I think its funny even b.t. has to get a explanation on why things in the Call happened.

 

[Crambam]

I guess every great writing team has their "Spock's Brain." I definitely enjoy that the creative team posts on this board. They can defend their work, though usually they don't have to. And the best part is that their attitude does not involve denial. As b.t. said, The Call is a mess.

Other writers would get all smug and say things like, "well if you don't like it, don't watch it." The good ones say, "yep, we blew it, sorry."

And the fact that The Call is in a class by itself in trouble is a good thing. It's an exception to a rule that usually involves top notch writing.

I just wish these guys would be writing the various live action movies involving the DC heroes.

 

[Toddman]

Oh, was it supposed to be Superman who launched those fire bombs in the first place? That was never clear. I always assumed it was the work of 90-year-old Lex Luthor or something. *Shrugs again.*

You'd think the rest of the League would've raised an eyebrow at that point (in hindsight). After the initial round of firbombs explode, Supes sscans the surrounding area and says "There are no more bombs." But what happens just a few seconds later? About a gajillion more bombs go off! And then there's a giant missile!

Oh well. I remember when part 1 first aired in late 2000, I thought it was a great episode and a fabulous introduction to a new animated JLA...U...whatever. Even after viewing part 2 the following Saturday, my first reaction was "Boy, that was all pretty darn cool." It was only later, after a little sober reflection while finishing off my Frosted Flakes that some of those nagging questions came to mind.

Still, part 1 is a terrific set up, with a very dramatic cliffhanger.

The whole thing reminded me a bit of the old "DC Challenge" comic book mini series from the 80's. It was a 12 issue series, and each issue was written and drawn by a different creative team. There was no series-long script written and collaborated on by all the writers before hand, though. The gimmick was that each issue ended with a cliffhanger, and it was up to the next issue's creative team to solve the cliffhanger dilemma and advance the plot. You think "The Call" part 2 was a mess? Imagine if it was spread over 12 parts instead of just two. And each episode had been scripted by a different writer. Issue 1 was streamlined and easy enough to follow, but by issue 4, "DC Challenge" was already spinning out of control.

Toddman

 

[Maxie Zeus]

Because he's Superman. The idea that the greatest hero in comics history is under some aliens' control for years, and comes out of it with no memory, is very difficult to accept as a long time fan of the character.

But that's not a "logic" problem. That's a "I love Superman and I hate this idea" problem.

I guess every great writing team has their "Spock's Brain." I definitely enjoy that the creative team posts on this board. They can defend their work, though usually they don't have to. And the best part is that their attitude does not involve denial. As b.t. said, The Call is a mess.

Other writers would get all smug and say things like, "well if you don't like it, don't watch it." The good ones say, "yep, we blew it, sorry."

And the fact that The Call is in a class by itself in trouble is a good thing. It's an exception to a rule that usually involves top notch writing.

Uh, I don't see b.t. anywhere saying that they "blew it" on "The Call." I only see him cheerfully admitting that the plot makes no sense. There are lots of great stories (Casablanca and The Big Sleep come to mind) where the plot is incoherent but the final product is awesome.