Batman Beyond "The Call, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Knight]

Superman respected the old Batman. Starro may not have known that this new Batman was a different one.

If he had all of Supermans' memories (which to play himself off as Supes he would have to) its clear that he knew that this new Batman wasnt Bruce.

 

[Jashyr]

As for a new Batman, I think they did know. After all, Superman confronted old Bruce in the Batcave, with Terry standing right there.

And specifically stops and stares at the part of the batcave where the Kryptonite is stored - he doesn't look like he's admiring the costumes, more wondering whether something's still there. Clark knows that Bruce has the means to stop him when he's under starro's control, I think it's just Clark's way of getting Terry in a position for Bruce to figure it out, no-one is beneath suspicion for the Bat.

This is actually an issue I wouldn't mind them addressing next week if possible. Even if they say that subsconsciously, there were bits and pieces of Superman coming through. If Starro is firmly in control, the whole episode makes no sense. But if Superman could come through and that's what made him finally turn to Batman, that makes some sense.

What I get is that the major problem was that all of this was trying to be subtle, but so subtle that practically no-one picked up on the clues. Normally I like subtle but this was just going a bit far

Jash

 

[Robin]

You also have to remember Superman's iconic status. Sure, he problems from "Legacy" are still there, but he's still considered one of the biggest heroes ever and that will probably remain. In case of a traitor, who would you trust? The Man of Steel? Or the new Batman, who's no older than a high school kid?

 

[Crambam]

In the case of a traitor you would trust Superman the icon. No doubt. But no one even considered there was a traitor until Superman brought Batman in.


I'll check out that scene in the batcave again with Superman. If he did look to where the kryptonite was, fine, but again, wouldn't that be SUPERMAN shining through? That's the real problem with this episode--Superman was so powerless.

 

[Allen CARR]

In the case of a traitor you would trust Superman the icon. No doubt. But no one even considered there was a traitor until Superman brought Batman in.


I'll check out that scene in the batcave again with Superman. If he did look to where the kryptonite was, fine, but again, wouldn't that be SUPERMAN shining through? That's the real problem with this episode--Superman was so powerless.

Im pretty sure the chamber was lined with lead. Besides some of Superman had to be in control.or Starro once again would of just flew over Wayne maynor, and destroyed it all.

 

[Fone Bone]

Why did Superman say that Terry knew what he was getting into at the end of the episode when he decided not to save him? Weren't all his memories erased?

And why did Superman try to kill Aquagirl when Terry was RIGHT THERE?

Face it folks, The Call does not follow our Earth-logic.

 

[Allen CARR]

Why did Superman say that Terry knew what he was getting into at the end of the episode when he decided not to save him? Weren't all his memories erased?

And why did Superman try to kill Aquagirl when Terry was RIGHT THERE?

Face it folks, The Call does not follow our Earth-logic.

I agree completly, the plot holes are mouting Fone Bone.

 

[Knight]

Why did Superman say that Terry knew what he was getting into at the end of the episode when he decided not to save him? Weren't all his memories erased?

If Superman had went down there Starro could have taken control of him again (there were hundreds of them in the water remember.). So going down to save anybody wouldn't have been a good idea for him.

As far as Terry if someone is going around calling himself Batman then he definitely knows what he is getting into and the responsibility of carrying the mantle. His job was to prevent Aquagirl from opening that door. If he fails than the whole planet is in danger of being overrun by body possessing aliens. Superman and the League had to do everything they could to prevent them from spreading which included trying to block the door.

 

[Squall]

"The Call" was a great finale for Batman Beyond. What could be a better finale to the series than to have Batman Beyond join the Justice League?

I hadn't seen an episode of Batman Beyond since "Ascension" when "The Call" aired. But, I enjoyed "The Call" so much, I actually went back and caught all the Batman Beyond episodes I'd missed after that...

Also, before "The Call", Batman Beyond never felt like it was a part of the same world that The Batman/Superman Adventures took place in. But, after this episode -- complete with a flashback of S:TAS "The Main Man" -- it surely did!

Let's not forget that this episode is what made JL, and then JLU, possible... this was definitely a moment of animation history.

 

[Fone Bone]

If Superman had went down there Starro could have taken control of him again (there were hundreds of them in the water remember.). So going down to save anybody wouldn't have been a good idea for him.

As far as Terry if someone is going around calling himself Batman then he definitely knows what he is getting into and the responsibility of carrying the mantle. His job was to prevent Aquagirl from opening that door. If he fails than the whole planet is in danger of being overrun by body possessing aliens. Superman and the League had to do everything they could to prevent them from spreading which included trying to block the door.

No, the way he said it, it was if he had already known Batman for a while. You'd think he'd have trouble getting used to the idea of a Batman who wasn't Bruce in the space of five minutes.

It seems to me there are quite a few people defending the sloppiest written episode in the DCAU. Yes, I liked it but it was a mess. An entertaining mess, but a mess none-the-less.

 

[Toddman]

No, the way he said it, it was if he had already known Batman for a while. You'd think he'd have trouble getting used to the idea of a Batman who wasn't Bruce in the space of five minutes.

It seems to me there are quite a few people defending the sloppiest written episode in the DCAU. Yes, I liked it but it was a mess. An entertaining mess, but a mess none-the-less.

Boney is completely right. I would even take Superman's apparent memory loss (or lack there of) one step further and question why Supes never asked Terry who he was when he was freed from Starro in the first place outside the Fortress.

Superman could just as easily have said to Bats,

"Hey, I'm going to alert you to a threat that not only do you have absolutely no idea even exists, but could conceivably be carried out by me without any interference at all, before you or the rest of the world knows what's going on. But the giant alien starfish controlling my brain feels like a challenge."

And just what the heck was up with those spikey-things that popped out of Superman's chest anyway ???

Toddman

 

[Knight]

No, the way he said it, it was if he had already known Batman for a while.

Well I disagree. How did you determine his tone was that of someone that had known the other for awhile?

 

[Allen CARR]

Well I disagree. How did you determine his tone was that of someone that had known the other for awhile?

your right, Starro Superman siad he had been watching Terry for awhile to see
what he could do. But thats was the first actual meeting, between Terry and Superman. Maybe Starro Superman wanted Batman, so he could have the best heroes for his "people" to take over. oh and knight can you please tell me the Green lantern Monto, you know in Blackest day or something. I need to know it, cause im writing a fanfic on Hal Jordan PLEASE .

 

[Fone Bone]

Boney is completely right. I would even take Superman's apparent memory loss (or lack there of) one step further and question why Supes never asked Terry who he was when he was freed from Starro in the first place outside the Fortress.

Superman could just as easily have said to Bats,

"Hey, I'm going to alert you to a threat that not only do you have absolutely no idea even exists, but could conceivably be carried out by me without any interference at all, before you or the rest of the world knows what's going on. But the giant alien starfish controlling my brain feels like a challenge."

And just what the heck was up with those spikey-things that popped out of Superman's chest anyway ???

Toddman

What WAS up with those spike things? They never even TRIED to explain that. I'm usually a firm believer in letting the viewer make up their own minds on unexplained story points but this was really pushing it.

And WHY try to kill Micron in such a high profile manner? You'd think if he was trying to take over the world he'd want it on the q.t. hush. For that matter why didn't he just take some of the extra Starros and possess the entire league in the first place?

Well I disagree. How did you determine his tone was that of someone that had known the other for awhile?

I listened to the way Christopher MacDonald delivered it.

 

[Yojimbo]

Oh come one it's entertaining to defend this episode.

Superman tried to kill Aquagirl when Batman was right there, well he was hoping he'd jump in and suffer annoying scalded skin but then he realized he forgot to set the bombs in Metropolis in such an elaborate way that Warhawk would die and Batman would see it all.

 

[Nick K.]

If he had all of Supermans' memories (which to play himself off as Supes he would have to) its clear that he knew that this new Batman wasnt Bruce.

To Starro, going through Superman's memories Batman may have been the same to him...

Guys, looking for plot holes is no fun... you end up creating more than are really present...

P.S. Plot Holes... any one have a definition because peopel keep throwing it out for things that aren't even really plot holes...

 

[Crambam]

Thing is though, these aren't minor nitpicks. The whole episode is a plothole. It makes no sense, which is rare for these writers, who are so good at what they do.


Has BT ever taken on the challenge of explaining the thinking behind this episode?

 

[Nick K.]

Thing is though, these aren't minor nitpicks. The whole episode is a plothole. It makes no sense, which is rare for these writers, who are so good at what they do.


Has BT ever taken on the challenge of explaining the thinking behind this episode?

Okay, you believe what you need too.

 

[BeastBoyWonder]

Thing is though, these aren't minor nitpicks. The whole episode is a plothole. It makes no sense, which is rare for these writers, who are so good at what they do.


Has BT ever taken on the challenge of explaining the thinking behind this episode?

I'm still unclear as to what you consider to be the definition of "plot hole," and which ones in the episode still persist that haven't already been addressed. Structural problems, organizational difficulties, bad narrative techniques, and things that you just plain don't like are different from flaws in "logic" of the story set in a futuristic "comic-book" world that incorporates both sci-fi and fantasy elements. The story definately rests on a few weak and tenuous assertions, but I think that's a bit different from making no sense altogether. "The Call" makes plenty of sense to me.

 

[b.t.]

Has BT ever taken on the challenge of explaining the thinking behind this episode?

oh, "the call" is a freakin' mess, no denying it....i appreciate everyone's attempts to explain away the plotholes (and kenshi's right, it IS entertaining to watch people try), but yeah, we knew all along it was fulla holes back in the day....we were just so far behind schedule, the writers didn't have a chance to work out the bugs before it had to go out on the floor.....

besides the humungous lapses in logic, the thing that bugged me the most about it was that it was yet another "mind-controlled superman goes rogue" story, uncomfortably similar to superman's last appearance in the dcau (STAS: "legacy")....i complained about it to the writers -- "out of all the different things we could do with 'superman beyond', and we're doing THIS again?" -- alan conceded it was a fair point, but it was just too late in the game to do anything about it....

...BUT....

...even with all its flaws, i do think it's an extremely FUN show, with an excellent cast, interesting line-up of heroes (dave johnson and shane glines' character designs are really sweet), awesome score, full of "wow!" moments, and the "scary superman" bit IS somehow fitting within the darker, bleaker context of the BBEYOND world....

so, there you go.