Avengers: Black Panther's Quest "King Breaker, Parts 1-2" Talkback (Spoilers)

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RoyalRubble

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Tune in for Marvel's Avengers: Black Panther Quest! Disney XD will premiere two new episodes, back-to-back, tonight starting at 9:00PM ET!

Marvel's Avengers: Black Panther's Quest "King Breaker Part 1"
Episode Debut - February 10th, 2019

Black Panther must go behind enemy lines to save his foes from an even bigger threat.

Marvel's Avengers: Black Panther's Quest "King Breaker Part 2"
Episode Debut - February 10th, 2019

With an attack coming from multiple sides, Black Panther turns to help from an unlikely source

Comments?

Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
 
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Troy Troodon

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1. Black Panther: "Black Widow was a fake all along, we need to stop a war!"

2. Black Panther: Yes, we did it we stopped the war!"
Killmonger: After killing Attuma "Ha I'm always one step ahead of you!"
Black Panther: Dangit! Come on White Wolf, let's stop the war!
White Wolfe: Again?!
Black Panther: Again!

3. Black Panther: We stopped you Killmonger; now we stopped your war!
White Wolf: "Yeah, weren't you suppose to be one step ahead."
Killmonger: "I know where Black Widow is!"
Andromeda: "Give me Killmonger or I will wage war!"
Black Panther: "Uh..."
White Wolf: "Whiskers... o_o;"


4. Andromeda: "Okay, war it is then!"
Killmonger: "Ye'p one step ahead. "
White Wolf: " -_-; "

Yeah, Killmonger always seems to get exactly what he wants in the end and more. But hey, at least T'Challa is cleared of Cap's death now. ^^;

Also, Tiger Shark's cartoonish grinch smile at the end.
 
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Dudley

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Yeah, Black Panther made a bone-headed move that led us right back the whole “war with Atlantis” again. He should’ve at least consulted the Avengers. I’m sure they wouldn’t want all of the surface world to suffer just so they could find Black Widow.
 

Troy Troodon

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Yeah, Black Panther made a bone-headed move that led us right back the whole “war with Atlantis” again. He should’ve at least consulted the Avengers. I’m sure they wouldn’t want all of the surface world to suffer just so they could find Black Widow.
Actually that brings up an interesting point with Hawkeye, in that even though he’s cleared of Cap’s death Tchalla was still wrong for keeping everyone else in the black in the first place.
 
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Loverofcomix

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Apparently T'Challa hasn't learn his lesson about keeping secrets. :rolleyes:

I'm sure Attuma's daughter would understand the Black Widow situation. JUST TELL HER YOUR FRIEND HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED, YOU DOOFUS! :mad:

I enjoy the episodes, but the whole running from the law thing is getting a bit tiresome. What's next? Black Panther ticking off SHIELD? Will the next season be him and Shuri running from Fury and his agents?
 
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Roxas_Sora

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Seriously, it was so difficult to say something like this?: "This punk has information about the whereabouts of one of my teammates. Let me get the information out of his twisted mind, and after that, you can do whatever you want with him".
 
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Troy Troodon

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Seriously, it was so difficult to say something like this?: "This punk has information about the whereabouts of one of my teammates. Let me get the information out of his twisted mind, and after that, you can do whatever you want with him".
Well they have to keep the plot going until the season finale I guess. But hey, at least this series is taking risks compared to previous seasons so kudos to that I suppose. Granted it's not much but at least it's slightly improved.
 

TheLemsterPju

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Killmonger murdered Elanna's father, and also ruler of Atlantis, right in front of her. Hell no she's not going to be reasonable about giving them time to extract information from them. At that point, it's far too personal.
 
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Loverofcomix

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That's a fair point.

Also, Tiger Shark's smile at the end actually reminds me of Bruce from Finding Nemo.
I was thinking of the Grinch. :)

By the way, what's with Hawkeye getting so emotional over Black Widow? Sure they work together, but I don't remember them being best buds in the previous seasons. They exchanged banter back and fourth, but they never hung out like Thor and Hulk, or Steve and Tony.
 

Fone Bone

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Killmonger murdered Elanna's father, and also ruler of Atlantis, right in front of her. Hell no she's not going to be reasonable about giving them time to extract information from them. At that point, it's far too personal.
Let Alanna extract the information instead. I'm sure she'd be eager to.

Marvel's Avengers: Black Panther's Quest "King Breaker: Part One"

Some of this worked and some of it didn't. It was definitely better than the second part. But there is no real tension or conflict once Widow is revealed to be Zanda. Everything else is nonsense after that.

I think T'Challa's interactions with Alanna trying to convince her of his virtue were entirely plausible. Because he had an entirely different thing to prove to her than he did the Avengers.

Let's talk about Clint. This is the part of the episode that totally fell apart. T'Challa's first words are "Clint! You have to listen to me!" Forget the fact it's bad cartoon dialogue done to pad the drama out. Even if it weren't T'Challa is an idiot for using those specific words. Not only are they condescending, but they are the exact words that got him into trouble in the first place. His arguments come from a place of demand, rather than reason. And it gives Clint enough time to load his bow. Here is the line he have said instead:

Smart Panther: "Clint, Steve is a alive, and Natasha is a shape-shifting imposter from the Shadow Council, who lied about me killing him."

If he says those words in under ten seconds, Clint will lower the bow. Maybe he won't automatically believe him, but he'll be curious and want to hear more rather than be disgusted and want to shut him up. And it strikes me as incredibly weird that T'Challa still didn't tell Clint Steve was alive by the end of the episode. That is literally the most crucial piece of needed information that informs all the others, and he's using generalities to justify his actions when the honest to God's truth would be both faster and easier to believe. Yeah, this is badly written Marvel all the way. It's funny, I don't think Marvel Comics are better or worse than DC Comics. But DC cartoons, for all their faults tend to be better written. I could see this kind of thing on both the original Teen Titans and The Batman. But as a rule, the plots and dialogue on DC shows tend to be tighter than that of Marvel shows. And that's true even for the beloved stuff like The Spectacular Spider-Man whose entire series run would probably be 15 minutes long if the heroes were actually allowed to sit down and have an uninterrupted conversation. And I think the reason this cliche is so endemic to Marvel stuff and doesn't infect DC is because Marvel always has the heroes fighting each other, and they refuse to make anybody a bad guy, and they don't want the heroes explaining themselves. Explanations and talking stop fights. And seeing how clumsily Marvel handles this in almost every animated project (save Wolverine And The X-Men) make me realize that it doesn't matter if the writers of Marvel comics and cartoons are the same quality as those of the DC writers. As long as the conceit of Marvel Comics is that the heroes always fight each other, the comics and cartoons will always be worse written and inferior. The entire conceit demands it sucks.

And thinking about that makes me realize the very real way Marvel is worse than DC. It amazes me that DC movies suck so much and Marvel's don't. DC movies have a lot less baggage attached to their various premises, and Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder saddled them with incomprehensibly huge amounts of baggage anyways. If DC truly gets it together, Marvel will be in trouble simply because of the conceit makes their premises harder to sustain than DC's are. Luckily for Marvel, they have very stupid enemies. But if DC wises up, Marvel could have a real box-office rival on their hands. And the scary thing is for the DC movies that all of the problems are an easy fix. It's the fact that DC only made those fixes for Wonder Woman and Aquaman which is why DC is in trouble at all. If and when they apply their fixes to all future movies, Marvel WILL be in trouble.

And finally we get to Clint. I have proudly proclaimed that this specific version of Clint Barton is the single worst animated Marvel Superhero of all time. In history, I've claimed. That's a bold statement, even about Mr. "You ate all the pickles! Die now!" But this episode totally backs me up. When he whinges, "If Nat were an impostor, I'd know. I've known for her years." And I was like "Bingo. And that is the precise reason you suck." I probably would not be saying Clint is the worst animated Marvel hero in the history of film and television if he didn't give me such easy ammo every single time he appears. The guy absolutely sucks. He's the dude people applaud when he's escorted out of a restaurant by the management. Probably because he hit the waiter for stealing his pickles. He. SUCKS.

Do you know what the worst thing is? Zanda's Widow impression is pretty outright horrible, and she is able to get tripped up very easily, and blows her cover at the slightest misstep because she's bored. And she still fooled him. That is a seriously sucky friend, ladies and gentlemen. Wherever the real Tash actually is, she must be fuming.

Entertaining episode with zero actual tension. ***.

Marvel's Avengers: Black Panther's Quest "King Breaker: Part Two"

Oh, my God! That was a spectacularly bit of bad writing! They went all out! Everything they COULD do wrong, they did wrong! My hat's off to this show for daring to suck so unapologetically!

Sweet God. Where to begin?

White Wolf comes barging into the throne room screaming about how he's trying to help them. Do you know what would be more effective to yell? "The suitcase is a bomb! Run!" Neither the words bomb or run are uttered by Hunter even once because they would be effective, and solve the problem instead of making Tony and Attuna a fake obstacle.

I am gleeful at this point about how right I am about Clint. He's practically shaking and blubbering at T'Challa over the fact that HE, Clint, lost Natasha, and it happened right under his nose. He. SUCKS.

By the way, Clint still being mad at T'Challa for keeping secrets is pretty rich. Isn't Clint ex-SHIELD? A spy organization trafficking in secrets? As such are we to believe Clint has never heard of the concept of the compartmentalization of information? And considering how badly Clint was compromised by losing Natasha and having a spy for the Council at his ear instead, doesn't that mean T'Challa was right to keep him out of it? I think the proper response for Clint would be "My bad."

Speaking of which, it amazes me this season is centered around a character as jerkish and foolish as T'Challa. Sometimes rooting for a foolish jerk can be fun (see Thor) but the problem is this show wants me to respect him and think he's a good leader. Every single time he tells a person "You don't understand," or "I am doing this for your own good," I want to smack him. Here is what he needed to say to Alanna. "Killmonger kidnapped one of my friends and he's the only person who knows where she is. Before you execute him give me five minutes alone to extract the information." And then he should give Killmonger a super nasty look and say "You know what? You probably don't trust me at this point. Why don't I trust YOU instead and have your guards extract the information for me? After what he did I'm sure you'd enjoy it," while Killmonger gulps. Instead he kidnaps Killmonger from Atlantean custody as if this isn't a diplomatically crazy thing to do after Killmonger murdered their king in front of his daughter. He's like Adrian Monk smashing uneven windows: "You'll thank me later." The worst thing about the writers of this show (and there are a ton of terrible things) is that they forget T'Challa is supposed to be a king and have a measure of both professionalism and diplomacy. If he cannot explain Alanna as to why she should keep Killmonger alive for an extra five minutes, he shouldn't be King. Because he sucks at his job of leadership. It's one thing have the King of a nation part of an ensemble and base his decisions around that. Once they start having him make huge unilateral decisions like this, the fact that he's a king is a drawback to the story. They probably should not have centered a season about subterfuge and treason around Black Panther. I'm not saying the character couldn't headline an Avengers show. I'm saying they should have picked a different storyline for him and not turned him against both the Avengers and then the Atlanteans.

Killmonger's plan to leave Tiger Shark behind because it would be handy to have a member of the Shadow Council in Atlantis sounds like a good idea on paper. It's one of those clever villain ploys that Greg Weisman would come up with. And like most Xanatos Gambits, it does not hold up to any sort of real scrutiny. If Tiger Shark hadn't been freed immediately at the end, he probably wouldn't even WANT to work for the Shadow Council anymore. In all likelihood he'd simply be burning an asset, with valuable intel for their enemies left behind without him present to threaten him into silence. He is very lucky T'Challa is an even worse planner than he is.

When Clint is mad at T'Challa for not telling him Steve was alive, T'Challa claims it wasn't the right time. Aww, whatsamatta, T'Challa? U Shy? Idiocy.

That was one crappy piece of television. I am almost impressed by how much that sucked. It takes a LOT of chutzpah to literally get EVERYTHING wrong. 0.
 
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Frontier

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It's still kind of amusing to see so many Atlantean characters and Atlantis figure so prominently into a Marvel cartoon but with no Namor in sight. Although at this point I doubt the Altantis plot could've worked out as it did without them using Attuma like they have :confused:.

Kinda feels odd to see them say they had most of the Shadow Council captured when Madame Masque and Zanda were still in the wind. Did they not take the threat of two women seriously or something :shrug:?

Looks like Steve is still recovering from being stuck in the Crown, so not only is he missing his shield but he's not up to snuff physically either. Hopefully they'll be able to rectify Cap on both fronts :ack:.

It became more and more obvious that Zanda was posing as Black Widow, so it was good to finally get that out of the way. I'm curious if that falling debris really took her out, although considering the heroes' track record with fighting her, maybe it's for the best if it did. I also think it's fitting that Zanda's own vanity would be what eventually did her in :rolleyes:.

The Wakandan Royal Family ride again, as Black Panther once again teams-up with the White Wolf. It was nice to see T'Challa let Hunter out and to see them working together towards good, albeit with Hunter still constantly taking digs at his brother (and, admittedly, he has every right to call him out on what happened with Zemo). It was also great to see Hunter really prove himself as a hero and re-earn T'Challa's trust :anime:.

Princess Elana was an interesting wrinkle into this series, as Attuma's daughter. She made for an interesting contrast with her father and a different perspective for the Atlantean higher-ups that our heroes have dealt with, and it was nice to see her join up with T'Challa and prove invaluable in getting Attuma on their side. All around she was presented as a very reasonable and intelligent princess...it's just a shame that losing her father and becoming wracked with vengeance will cause her to become an antagonist :crying:.

Black Panther's Quest continues it's trend of making Namor villains more heroic with Orca becoming this honorable and dependable warrior of Atlantis (maybe it helped that Namor isn't king?). Of course, that's probably all going to change once Atlantis attacks the surface :eek:.

Hawkeye...man, Hawkeye is just so insufferable in this series. I want to support him on his whole "stop keeping secrets T'Challa" standpoint, because I think he has a valid point, and I want to feel bad about him getting his hands burnt, but...he's just so rigid and uncompromising and obsessed with blaming T'Challa for everything. It's just kind of hard to root for him on this show :(.

T'Challa's biggest issue, beyond compartmentalizing and keeping secrets "for the greater good," is that he usually fights people so unwilling to listen to reason or let him have five minutes edge-wise to talk to them :sweat:.

Tony sure forgave T'Challa quick. He was even back to calling him "buddy," but I guess they definitely had more pressing concerns then their previous enmity. And Steve being alive probably fixed most of the burnt bridges between them as well :).

I'm kind of surprised it took Killmonger this long to cut Tiger Shark loose, considering how many missions he's failed by this point, but then Queen Elana ends up giving him a new chance to attack the surface and come after Black Panther :mad:.

I can't believe this show actually made me feel bad for the death of Attuma, but I thought they did a good job of presenting Attuma as this complicated figure doing the best he could for his people, and how he relates to T'Challa in that. It's a shame that just as he and T'Challa finally came together as allies and potential friends, Killmonger showed up to ruin everything :sad:.

Black Panther and White Wolf beating the snot out of Killmonger was pretty satisfying. I guess the reason Killmonger needs to be as much of a mastermind as he is is because he pretty decisively cannot beat T'Challa when it comes to combat :rolleyes2:.

Geoffrey Thorne addresses some of the major points of this episode:
If T'Challa gives Killmonger to the Altanteans, Killmonber gets executed on the spot. That would mean, at the very least, Natasha stays missing and possible dies wherever she is.

T'Challa still doesn't know what Killmonger's plan was for Wakanda and the Crown or how far along it is. The world still considered Wakanda a rogue nation and T'Challa as Public Enemy #1. Killmonger getting executed before all his global troubles get cleared up, not the least of which is his issues with ... not being truthful with the Avengers.

He has two members of the Shadow Council (M'Baku and Klaue) in prison.
Zemo is dead.
Zanda is presumed dead.
As far as he knows, Tiger Shark is in an Atlantean dungeon.
He has Killmonger in custody and the Crown, for now is under lock and key and seemingly harmless.

The only member of the council unaccounted for is Madame Masque who, while formidable on her own, isn't focused on doing anything to Wakanda or furthering Killmonger's plan now that the Shadow Council is broken.

It's been a bumpy ride and T'Challa's made some errors but, right now, he definitely scores as the winner, navigating some pretty complex overlapping issues.

And, above all else. Wakanda is safe.

Before he is ANYthing- brother, son, friend, scientist, superhero, Avenger- T'Challa is the king of Wakanda. Every decision he makes is about preserving the safety of his nation and then, after that, the world at large.

Not an easy job.

PS

There's actually a real reason why Zanda is so convincing to people who should know better but we haven't revealed in in the show (partly because I haven't told anyone).
 
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Loverofcomix

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Black Panther and White Wolf beating the snot out of Killmonger was pretty satisfying. I guess the reason Killmonger needs to be as much of a mastermind as he is is because he pretty decisively cannot beat T'Challa when it comes to combat :rolleyes2:.
Yeah, I agree. This Killmonger comes off more like a James Bond villain. He does things that would make Dr. Claw and Ernst Blofeld blush.

I wonder when Tony met White Wolf. He knows who Hunter is and his relation to T'Challa. I don't remember them meeting before. I was expecting Tony to say "who the heck are you, pal?!" :oops:

I'm getting a Puck vibe from Zanda. When she told them she was bored, it makes me think of tricksters who love pulling pranks on people.
 
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Frontier

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I wonder when Tony met White Wolf. He knows who Hunter is and his relation to T'Challa. I don't remember them meeting before. I was expecting Tony to say "who the heck are you, pal?!" :oops:
He didn't seem to know him personally, so I'm guessing Tony knew him by reputation or T'Challa's mentioned his adoptive brother (although I kind of doubt that last one).
 

Frontier

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Hawkeye is usually one of my top favorite Avengers (not on this show). This season has really done him no favors. What a flaming idiot. He's not even acting like a hero, so he doesn't have that going for him.
Yeah, I've...really not liked Hawkeye's portrayal this season :(.

The worst part is that the last two seasons did such a good job of redeeming the Assemble version of Hawkeye after his portrayal in the first two seasons, but this just almost did away with all that by making him such an insufferable and dumb jerk :mad:.

I kinda feel bad for Troy Baker that he got saddled with such a whiny Hawkeye :sad:.
What exactly is Killmonger's goal?
To rule Wakanda and...generic, villain, stuff I think :p.
 
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