Ask John: Is Toonami Bad For Anime?

Artemis

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Originally posted by jetwing5


Hamtaro?! CN actually edited Hamtaro?! What's there to edit in that "cute-hamster" show that directed towards toddlers? Zoids, yea, there's bound to be editing going on. And in the uncut Pokemon, Ash always says "Damn" everytime there's danger. Yugioh...oh man, you have no idea how much it was edited! They even edited guns out of guards and monsters! They edited the "perverted" joke even though there's no nudity to see! Hell, they even put two episodes into one with no apparent reason (other than the "it's too slow!" But that's not even a good reason. Of course, this isn't anything new. It reminds me of Fox's Escaflowne). Even though I don't agree with these edits, I can "vaguely" understand why they did all of that. But can someone tell me what's there to edit from Hamtaro?! Editing Hamtaro is like editing Barney the dinosaur!

I think the Hamtaro edits are simply for time and also changing katakana in the background into English. That's all. Nothing like blood or swearing.

Pokemon's edits aren't that big. The only big edits was the swimsuit episode and refusing to air an episode simply because a guy carries a gun in it.

And if it helps, the Yu-Gi-Oh manga will be part of Shonen Jump and Shonen Jump will be unedited.
 

JetMaster5

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Originally posted by Artemis


I think the Hamtaro edits are simply for time and also changing katakana in the background into English. That's all. Nothing like blood or swearing.


Oh! That was it? Oh...okay.

Pokemon's edits aren't that big. The only big edits was the swimsuit episode and refusing to air an episode simply because a guy carries a gun in it.


That was kinda foolish of them. Cutting an episode because of a picture of a gun. But at the same time, it didn't make any sense. There was a Growlithe episode where at the beginning, a robber was carrying a gun. And KidsWB let it air on the network.

And if it helps, the Yu-Gi-Oh manga will be part of Shonen Jump and Shonen Jump will be unedited.

It helps. Seriously, it really does help. Especially if you could see the original in it's format.
 

livingfruitvirus

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Originally posted by Artemis
I think the Hamtaro edits are simply for time and also changing katakana in the background into English. That's all. Nothing like blood or swearing.


Yea. Most English in the show is digitally edited from Kana. It's a dead giveaway when an English dub name is used, or if it looks like a cheesy computer font. Also there was an edit involving Laura in a towel (seriously, those kids are so skinny I now REALLY don't want to see under that) and a couple cigarettes. Any editing was done by Viz.
 

Albright

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Originally posted by RogueMartian
At Otakon I heard some guys talking about how much anime fandom has changed. They seemed more pleased than anything that their once exclusive club was now closer to mainstream than ever before.
Funny. You would think that they would be glad that anime in America is as accessable and varied as it is now.
 

Zero Angel

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What?

Originally posted by Artemis

And if it helps, the Yu-Gi-Oh manga will be part of Shonen Jump and Shonen Jump will be unedited.

just a curiosity...but is this the same Shonen Jump that had been printed in Japan? you know the one that had the Trigun manga in it? and if so...are they simply translating all the old issues to bring it over here or are they going with the current material to be used?
 

Sora Takenouchi

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Originally posted by Albright

Funny. You would think that they would be glad that anime in America is as accessable and varied as it is now.

Um..I think they were. If I read correctly they were glad anime was no longer exclusive and becoming mainstream.
 

Nexus810

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While CN has created a lot of ignorant people who think they know a lot about what Anime is or about a specific Anime it has shown America that Anime sells. Whether it be from ratings fro Cartoon Network, or for Bandai, ADV, etc. who sell the VHS/DVD copies.

Unfortunetly there seems to be only room for Action Anime on Cartoon Network and the like, other great shows that arent all that action but are great Anime will never see the light of day on Cartoon Network. One can only hope that CN continues to do well and that way other mainstream networks (such as NBC, ABC, or TNT) can put on a primetime show in the 8-11 o'clock area. These shows would be the shows that wont fit hte CN demographic. Examples would be Fushigi Yugi, Evangelion, Hana Yori Dango, Vampire Princess Miyu, and a whole lot more. Im sure there are shows that could work on CN, but due to editing and such they would be butchered so it would probably be a bad idea to put them on CN. If anime ever did get on to the "MUST SEE TV" line ups of NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS, TNT or what have you im sure there would be less editing anyway.

One can only hope that the execs see how well its working for Cartoon Network with Toonami and Adult Swim that they will experiment and put on an anime in prime time to be exposed to adults who think that Anime is just for kids or is porn. It can happen, we did have the Gameshow craze, Reality TV craze, and such. And just look at NBC and the other networks, their sitcoms are dying and there arent many good sitcoms coming.
 

Albright

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Originally posted by Sora Takenouchi


Um..I think they were. If I read correctly they were glad anime was no longer exclusive and becoming mainstream.

Drr... Sorry. I misread that. :p
 

Dogasu

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OK...I have a lot to say...

For one thing, Toonami (as well as Adult Swim Action) airs anime in its original dubbed form, just with some edits. Cartoon Network doesn't demand shows to be Americanized (have you seen all the Japanese culture references in Tenchi!?), paint over kanji, change music, change character names, or any of that other crap that networks like Fox and Kids' WB! pulls. They simply take the dub you can get on VHS/DVD and edit for content. That had never been done before Toonami. They don't do a Kids' WB! and try to change something like "Card Captor Sakura" into a boys' show.

Another thing I didn't like is him calling anime an "artform." In fact, a lot of anime fans do this. I mean, seriously, anime isn't art. It's mass-produced television shows that have their run, are cancelled, and more or less forgotten about. While Japanese fans may fondly remember shows like Dragon Ball Z or Sailor Moon (the same way American fans fondly remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Tiny Toons Adventures), Japanese animated programs are just as disposable as American animation. And I'm sorry, but Sailor Moon is not art. Hamtaro is not art. Pokemon is not art.

And the comment about Toonami only airing anime that wouldn't have to be edited--well, there really isn't much anime that COULD air unedited. American censors are some of the (if not THE) strictest censors in the world. I have a friend in Ireland who keeps asking me why American shows like Jerry Springer have so much bleeped out, and that after 9pm you can show nudity and have people saying sh*t without anyone having a problem with it.

Even kiddie shows have been edited to hell and back. Yu-Gi-Oh has had the aforementioned guns removed (for your reference--these guys were sent to kill Kaiba, but their guns were painted away, so that the guys were holding nothing--it looked ridiculous, because their fingers were holding an invisible trigger), Digimon has had things about death removed, and Hamtaro's had its kana erased.

And Pokemon was edited a lot more than people think (come on people, I own a Pocket Monsters site--I gotta include a mini-rant). Any signs that the show was made in Japan was erased. Episodes were delayed and shown out of order because the dubbers didnt' have enough time to erase all the kana. The swimsuit episode was hacked to bits. The episode where Ash and co. were trapped in an ice cave had a bunch of snippets and cuts to hide the fact that Meowth was holding a match (yes, apparently matches are evil). A scene where Meowth has a lighter is cut out in one episode. And there were two episodes
that were never aired--one because it was the episode that caused all those seizures a few years ago, and the other because the warden of the Safari Zone was a bit gun-crazy. He shoots at Jessie and James, and he spends a good portion of the episode with the gun pointed on Ash, Misty, and Brock.

Anyway, it's a shame that Cartoon Network has to edit anime, but it's necessary. Because America is too uptight right now, and when seeing Jim say "hell" or seeing a lesbian couple on TV is too taboo, then there's no chance that we'll see anime in its "proper" form on an afternoon block.

I think this guy's rant is just proof that some anime fans are too protective of their hobby. Let other people enjoy anime, don't try to hog it all for yourself.
 

I.R Joey

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Now what the heck is going on here with Kids WB, we saw all the action shows, bats, supes, Beyond, Calamity Jane, Zeta and every single one of them had people shooting the light house when they needed to. Remember in World's Finest where Mercy comes in with that huge gun and just rips everything apart? I do not understand what's going on with them.
 

Zero Angel

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Umm...no one answered my question...but first...

Originally posted by Dogasu
OK...I have a lot to say...

Another thing I didn't like is him calling anime an "artform." In fact, a lot of anime fans do this. I mean, seriously, anime isn't art. It's mass-produced television shows that have their run, are cancelled, and more or less forgotten about. While Japanese fans may fondly remember shows like Dragon Ball Z or Sailor Moon (the same way American fans fondly remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Tiny Toons Adventures), Japanese animated programs are just as disposable as American animation. And I'm sorry, but Sailor Moon is not art. Hamtaro is not art. Pokemon is not art.

yes but have you ever seen a little movie known as Royal Space Force : The Wings of Honneiamise? this movie broke the category for any and all animation as simply animation and bridged it over to the realm of artdom. sure most tv series are just that...tv series, but you do have anime that is regarded as art.

Originally posted by Dogasu
And the comment about Toonami only airing anime that wouldn't have to be edited--well, there really isn't much anime that COULD air unedited. American censors are some of the (if not THE) strictest censors in the world. I have a friend in Ireland who keeps asking me why American shows like Jerry Springer have so much bleeped out, and that after 9pm you can show nudity and have people saying sh*t without anyone having a problem with it.

then it shouldnt be shown. that is the point he was trying to say. if it is a Children's Network then they shouldnt show material that wouldnt fly. it is a little arrogant to say but anime, even though i do live with the cuts made (hell Bebop has had the best edit yet), it shouldnt happen. can anyone tell me why Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon or Pokemon or Sailor Moon or Dragon Ball Z or Card Captor Sakura or Dragon Ball or Monster Rancher or any other anime put on this station or any station that is children's programming is edited? please.

i know you do include this little bit in your own post but still...the point it...if it is all children's programming then why do they edit it? do they edit Elmer Fud? how about Yosamite Sam? how about Wily Coyote? how about friggin Bugs Bunny? all of these characters are american icons in animation yet they are all allowed to conduct acts of violence with explosives, guns, and other weapons. isnt it a little strange how we dont edit any of this material now but still see fit to edit other countries material?
 

William C. Maune

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As others have stated this guys credibility on this issue goes right out the window when he admits he doesn't watch dubbed shows, let alone Toonami or Adult Swim. How can he accurately comment on the content and editing of the blocks, especially stuff like Cowboy Bebop when he has never seen it? Anyway, considering that you can buy almost anything edited for TV in uncut and dubbed/subbed form I would say this much wider availability far outweighs having to deal with annoying fan boys.​
 

D.Shaffer

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What I think is interesting is that some of the shows that first turned many US fans into otaku are exactly the sort of thing that they're complaining about.

Star Blazers, Robotech, Speed Racer, Voltron, Tranzor Z, Gigantor, etc... All of them action shows, all of them HEAVILY edited (Comically so at times). Yet, the very fact that they liked something that was as different from 'regular' cartoons then this was enough to make them seek it out. These days, with the internet, it's even easier to find out more about these anime series and what was changed in them.

In any case...anime is a medium. There is good anime, and there are groundbreaking shows that push the boundaries and could truely be called art...but the majority of it, just like normal TV and books, is mass marketed, formulaic, overly commercialised crap. Anyone who thinks otherwise is putting on blinders.
 

Arde

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considering all anime works to be art is truly wrong and horrific,
but doubting that no anime work is an art is also disgustingly wrong.

As D. Shaffer wrote, anime is a medium such as TV.
However, let's bring it more into detail by bringing in an analogy where anime series can be considered the equivalent to American sitcoms or something like the 1-hour series like X-Files or 24Hours.
And sometimes anime can even be considered like blockbuster movies and arthouse movies.

What fits the sitcom types: Fushigi Yugi, Nadesico, Love Hina ,etc.
What fits the usually more serious 1-hour slot: Serial Experiments Lain, Key the Metal Idol, Escaflowne, etc.

What fits the stereotypical blockbuster movies: Ninja Scroll, Akira, Princess Mononoke, etc
How about the arthouse form of anime: Grave of the Fireflies, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor Movie 1 & 2, etc.

When people first made movies in the 1920's, do you think they first start out with Gone With the Wind? Nope, they start out with the lowest common denominator - slapstick humor! Charlie Chaplin, The Three Stooges ...
That's the way that it goes also with anime in America. In the past anime in America was only action but now we even have shows like Big O and Cowboy Bebop entering the American anime mainstream.
That's the way it goes ... history always repeats itself...
 

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