"Arrow" Season Six Talkback (Spoilers)

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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#21
Arrow "Promises Kept"

Is it just me or is Slade Wilson the worst father ever? His kid witnesses him kill somebody at the age of 11, and then 6 months later, he's slit somebody else's throat. I cannot think of a worse parenting example.

I love that Team Arrow instantly forgave John. Why? Because he 100% did not deserve it. But as Renee noted, the amount of times he's saved their lives is far greater than the times he's nearly got them killed, so he's at least ahead.

I love Curtis being mad that John didn't come to him for the tremor thing. He's right. He made a paralyzed woman walk. He should have been Diggle's FIRST appointment, not the last resort.

Pretty good episode but not as good as last week. ***1/2.
 

Otaku-sempai

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Sep 10, 2010
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#22
Is the future we saw for Grant Wilson in Legends of Tomorrow set in stone? Maybe he is no longer destined to be Deathstroke II but will become Jericho in the Arrowverse (instead of Joseph). For that matter, Joe has been both a hero and a villain in the comics. Perhaps the same could happen with Grant.
 

hobbyfan

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Jun 9, 2002
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#23
Grant didn't last long in the original New Teen Titans books in 1980. Was killed off in the first 2 issues, and that's when papa Slade took his contract.

I swear, sometimes the writers on these shows make things up as they go along, and can't be bothered to research the characters the way we do.
 

Road to Gotham

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Sep 5, 2003
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#24
Diggles time as GA must be coming to an end as Ollie is under the hood in the big Crossover event.

Boy, I felt like a young pup again watching that preview for CRISIS on EARTH-X.
Made me remember the days waiting for the next issue of the JLA/JSA Crossover story.
Hope this event lives up to my hype.
 

The Penguin

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#27
Did you watch Arrow on Thanksgiving night?

"Thanksgiving"
Thursday, November 23, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
Oliver celebrates Thanksgiving with his family but the happy moment is interrupted. Meanwhile, Black Siren returns to wreak havoc on the holiday.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#28
Arrow "Thanksgiving"

Oliver seems surprised Watkins knows Green Arrow is now Diggle. I am not. I assume she knows everything.

I like that Cayden James calls Diggle Robin Hood and Team Arrow his Merry Men.

Good for Quentin for being insightful enough to realize that he isn't detached enough to help with Laurel, and to busy himself with helping Oliver instead.

I love that Oliver's approval rating goes through the roof when he is arrested for being the Green Arrow. Public opinion about this sort of thing is VERY important which is something Cayden James knows all too well.

I kind of love that Oliver is the one guy who is legitimately angry about John accepting the Arrow gig compromised. As happy as I was that the rest of the team instantly forgave him, is as happy I am that Oliver is pissed. It's actually the more understandable reaction. This just became messy.

I also love that Oliver apologizes to the team too. That was great.

Him and Diggle working it out was amazing too. I like that Oliver can apologize for that, but honestly, I admire Diggle's apology more, because Diggle's actions were actually wrong. Him telling Oliver he only accepted because he put Oliver's family above his own was a lie, and I like that he was big enough to admit that being Green Arrow is actually something he always wanted. That was cool.

Quentin's "Woe is me" routine to Dinah being stopped upon her revealing her ex-boyfriend was Vigilante, is an essential Quentin theme. He always thinks his specific pain is singularly unique, and then is always embarrassed when the person on Team Arrow he is grousing with is going through the exact same thing. It's one of the things I love about Quentin, and it's probably why somebody like him was ever able to forgive, respect, and like Oliver at all, despite everything.

I love that Felicity instantly told Oliver about Diggle. She doesn't keep things from him, which is completely consistent with her behavior in the earlier seasons.

I love that Renee loves Billy Joel. Who doesn't?

Thea waking up was about time. Does Willa Holland have a movie coming out or something?

Don't like Oliver lying to William, but Oliver IS needed for the big crossover next week.

I didn't buy the measure passing. Usually footage like that takes a couple of days to be digested by the public before it moves public opinion. It probably wouldn't have changed any votes by happening the night before.

Pretty good episode. ***1/2.
 
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hobbyfan

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#29
Arrow "Thanksgiving"

I didn't buy the measure passing. Usually footage like that takes a couple of days to be digested by the public before it moves public opinion. It probably wouldn't have changed any votes by happening the night before.

Pretty good episode. ***1/2.
Plot hole. Now Ollie knows he and the city are being manipulated by Cayden James. Personally, I'd rather not see this storyline continue through the entire season, and send James off to prison at the halfway point of the season. Diamonds to donuts the Fed is also being duped, or is in league with James in secret.

By the way, Fone Bone, the dude's name is Rene, not Renee.

The concert footage with Billy Joel was taped elsewhere and stitched into the show. Read that someplace.

I think Berlanti needs new writers for this show. Seriously.
 

The Penguin

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#30
Arrow on a Monday! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Crisis on Earth-X, Part 2"
Monday, November 27, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
Barry and Iris’s wedding brings the gang together, but things go awry when villains from Earth-X attack the ceremony.
 

hobbyfan

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#31
Points to ponder in part 2:

Prometheus of Earth-X is Tommy Merlyn? And he takes his own life, just like Adrian Chase did. Lame.

On Earth X, Kara & Oliver are married? OliKara? Oy!

Caitlin's description of her split personality is a rip-off of the Hulk from way back in the day. Another cheap shot at Marvel.

So we're back to Thawne posing as Earth 1 Wells. Spare me.

Hitler died in 1994 on Earth X? Oh, brother. The Freedom Fighters can't come soon enough..........!

And Metallo's back. Gee, I wonder where Thawne found him.........!

Evil Kara is dying, and needs Our Kara's heart. So sorry, that won't end well.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#32
Arrow "Crisis On Earth X: Part 2"

I totally forgot Thawne killed Barry's mother. I thought Barry got off easy during the reveal until they pointed that out. Supergirl: Dark Kara. "How am I supposed to defeat that?" Green Arrow: Dark Oliver. "How am I supposed to defeat that?" Flash: Eobard Thawne. "I've punked this 'wipe at least twice. Bring it on."

I am partly sad that they didn't cast Matt Lescher again. I'm betting he was miffed he didn't get the call either, and is probably annoyed that despite the fact that he was a series regular on Legends Of Tomorrow for a season, he is still considered the lesser version of Thawne, even after all that. But I get why they used Tom Cavanaugh. That is the most personal version for Barry. Lescher is fine on a show that Barry usually is not on. But the Welles Thawne should probably usually be used for the big moments between Reverse Flash and Barry.

Nazis are over the top as far as supervillains go, but that's only true in normal times. Now they are relevant. Good for this show for not being like "There are good people on both sides." Tommy cannot be redeemed, and we shouldn't want him to be. Very clever way to have Colin Donnell cameo without eating up too much of his free time from Chicago Med. That is smart stunt casting.

The look of horror on Felicity Smoak's face said everything. Earth X IS the worst Earth, not only because there is no Felicity Smoak on it, but because of the reason there isn't. It's chilling, actually.

Interestingly, Savitar-erased-potential-future notwithstanding, we have yet to see a Universe with an Evil Barry Allen. Maybe that's coming in parts 3 and 4, but I do kind of think of the idea of Grant Gustin as a Nazi Supersoldier sounds totally goofy.

The idea that there IS a Kara on Earth 1 interests me. Why haven't we met her yet?

I love Kara's reaction to the idea of her and Oliver: "Oh gross!" Then she throws a wholly inadequate, "No offense," his way. Gee, Kara. How could a dude possibly be offended by THAT?

This is easily the best crossover the Arrowverse has ever done. *****.
 
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hobbyfan

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#33
Teasers for tonight show Quentin as a Nazi.

I think they were saving money by not bringing back Matt Lescher to play Thawne again. He was the better Thawne, IMPO. Cavanagh can chew scenery all day, so that's why they went with him in the yellow suit this time, probably to make up for not doing too much of that in season 1 of Flash.
 

reflection01

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Jul 16, 2005
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#34
Remind me how they confirmed there is an Earth 1 Kara? Seems like she's one person who wouldn't have a doppelgänger since she's not of Earth.

It would be interesting to meet Earth 1 Hank Henshaw.
 

The Penguin

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#35
Midseason finale! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Irreconcilable Difference"
Thursday, December 7, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
Quentin Lance is kidnaped by Black Siren and Cayden James, who are looking to trade Lance’s life for a weapon of mass destruction.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
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#36
Arrow "Irreconcilable Differences"

Generally speaking, I enjoy the Arrowverse episodes with character drama more than those with superheroics. That is usually the rule. And yet, this episode feels a bit off to me. And I'll tell you what the mistake was. Maybe it would have been a mistake either way, but I kind of think this is worse. First off, I do not think they should have had Rene betray Oliver in such a fashion. But if they WERE going to do it, I would have liked to have seen it happening, and for this plot turn to have been set up a few weeks in advance. Because this is television, Arrow makes it a surprise to the viewer, and makes them wonder who the traitor could be. But the truth is, just based on what Rene said, he had legit reasons for what he did. And yet, because I didn't actually see it happen, and I didn't actually see Watkins take his daughter away, I do not have the sympathy ready enough to agree with Oliver giving him a second chance. And that's on the show. Frankly, it was a bad idea to do this story turn in the first place, but they picked the worst way to do it.

The second thing that really bothered me was Dig not having Dinah's back. I understand completely why Oliver doesn't trust her, but Dig SHOULD have been sticking up for her. It doesn't actually make me angry at Dig. Because it is completely out of character. It makes me angry at the writers who chose to do that simply so Dinah would have a legit reason to quit the team. You should never, EVER sacrifice the integrity of your characters to make a story juicier. Television almost always does this, which is why all things considered, as far as mediums go, it tends to really suck.

I do not think Cayden is particularly brilliant. He has a whole team of supervillains, and he picked Laurel to watch Lance? That was the dumbest thing ever precisely because of what happened. It should have been a no-brainer not to even involve her in this kidnapping at all. She should have been given a personal day at his expense. Lance would be dead if he had.

Cayden saying you know he could keep his promises because he vowed to destroy the city is supposed to sound badass, but it also doesn't work as far as promises go. Not lying to somebody and keeping your word is much different than setting a goal for yourself and promising people you'll follow through. There are some fabulous, otherwise honest people out there who suck at New Year's resolutions. A vow to do something in the future doesn't mean jack as far as trustworthiness is concerned.

The one thing I liked in the episode was Curtis' perspective about how it felt wrong to be spied upon. What is interesting is that Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity were right to do it on some level. Somebody betrayed the team and that's how you weed them out. But why didn't Dig or Felicity ever have to explain themselves? Why does Curtis always seem to be on the outside of that trust? I actually understand surveilling Wild Dog and Black Canary. They have caused problems in the past. But Curtis feeling insulted and insecure for the surveillance is the correct reaction. Unlike Rene or Dinah, he has never done anything remotely suspicious. As much I disdain Dig for not sticking up for Dinah is probably a thousand times what I feel for Felicity not sticking up for him. Out of all of the people who left the team tonight, I think Curtis' reason was the most legit.

Actually, there was a second thing I liked now that I think about it. I liked Quentin giving Oliver the watch. Quentin and Oliver's relationship was pretty much the heart and soul of the show for the first four seasons. It was its biggest selling point. It's the biggest reason I watched, and Paul Blackthorne used to be this show's acting MVP, and knocked it out of the park as far as pathos and drama went. But with his stint as the deputy mayor and being in rehab, his role has gotten much smaller. The biggest reason I think it was a mistake to kill off our Laurel (who I legitimately hated and was happy to otherwise see go) was because it made it so that Quentin and Oliver had nothing to fight about, or bond about, or whatever was going on with Laurel that week. The moment where he gives him the watch and tells Oliver he should have a parent at the wedding is something that I had been waiting for all season. It amazes me this is their first dynamite moment this entire year. They used to happen every week.

I should love this episode. But I don't. I think it's a bit badly constructed in order to try and surprise the viewer. And instead I'm disappointed. **1/2.
 

hobbyfan

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Jun 9, 2002
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#38
Just got done watching this online. If you needed to be reminded that Berlanti sees Ollie as his Batman, well, we find that he has Rene, Dinah, & Curtis under surveillance. Batman did that with the Justice League in the books not long ago.

Meanwhile, Rene is blackmailed by Agent Watson. I've a bad feeling about her, and it involves that pathetic excuse for a big bad, Cayden James. She's in the tank for James, because why else would the feds blackmail Rene? This will be revealed in the 2nd half, but I'm not so sure I'd stick around. The writing sucks, because, again, you have writers on this show who know nothing about the characters and recycling plots.

Predictably, Anatoly, Vigilante, and Diaz are all with James. I wouldn't be too sad if CW finally cut bait and ended the Arrowverse in another year or so, since the writing is just bad right now.
 

The Penguin

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#39
Midseason premiere! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Divided"
Thursday, January 16, 2018 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
Despite losing half his team, Oliver remains confident that he, Felicity and Diggle can stop Cayden James and Black Siren.
 

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