"Arrow" Season Seven Talkback (Spoilers)

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The Penguin

All Hail the King!
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Arrow moves to Mondays, but Oliver Queen isn't going anywhere. Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW

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"Inmate 4587"
Monday, October 15, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Following Oliver’s shocking decision to turn himself over to the FBI, Oliver has spent the past five months in Slabside Maximum Security Prison.

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rggkjg1

NOV 25th, 27th, or DEC 3rd 2018
So...….they aren't going to explain how ARGUS saved Felicity? If they got there in time, how did they not apprehend Diaz????
 

Road to Gotham

Well-Known Member
Nice seeing Brick, Bronze Tiger, and Samson again.
Oliver's naked shower fight scene was a dozy.

Yeah, that was awkward with the Felicity/ARGUS stuff.
Also weird was that Black Siren is now the DA of Star City. WHAT?!
Diggle look spiffy in his ARGUS uniform.

Not sure about this flash forward business with Roy and William.

Guess I better like those flash forwards as show runner Beth Schwartz says they are here to stay.

'Arrow' Flash-Forwards Will Remain Until Series Ends Says Showrunner
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
I love the fact that we didn't see the Argus save. Details in the following review:

Arrow "Inmate 4587"

To be blunt, that didn't actually wow me. But on the other hand, besides the fake out dream sequence at the beginning, it didn't make too many errors either.

I am a little leery of the idea of flashforwards, especially to when William is an adult. It might box the show in too much, which is a concern to me. But if the writers have a good plan, like they did on Lost, it could work. It's just it's Berlanti. He is NOT Carlton Cuse. No WAY they have a solid plan. Nuh uh. I am beyond skeptical. This is the producer of shows who made a season long gimmick of Flash finally having to defeat a villain by outthinking him, and had the resolution being that his wife unplugged his wheelchair instead. That was freaking last year. NO way this ends well.

Of course the new Green Arrow is Roy. It's weird that nobody is even considering that it is.

When Oliver walks away from that guy getting beat, I actually thought Oliver was pretty much worthless. He made up for it at the end of the episode, but that was a sucky thing to do, on a series where Oliver Queen has done nonstop sucky things.

I'm still not sure why this show simply has Bronze Tiger be an outright bad guy, instead of turning him into a hero. But they had the same problem with Huntress, and to a lesser extent Vigilante.

Not buying Laurel as the new D.A.. It is not credible that a "former vigilante" would be placed in that position. Dinah as chief of police makes a little more sense, but it's still problematic for the same reason.

Felicity sending William away to boarding school is 100% the wrong call. I'm not saying that she should have gone into witness protection with him again. But he should have been living with Argus where she would have easy access to him. This is already tough enough on the poor kid.

Diaz made another huge mistake this episode, which is par for the course, and something I like. He took a shot at Felicity and missed. That is probably the dumbest thing the character has ever done, and I like that he did it because he doesn't tend to do a ton of dumb stuff. What I especially like is that it is entirely believable he WOULD do something that dumb, even if, generally speaking, he isn't. Because he IS obsessed with respect and entitlement, so it makes sense that he monologues to Felicity, allowing her time enough to survive until Argus steps in.

What do I feel about not seeing the Argus save? I think that was a deliberate choice by the writers, and even if it's not one I would have made myself, I like it. It makes Felicity showing up in the prison the Godsend to the viewer it is to Oliver. We wouldn't have been as relieved as we were if we saw her fate.

And yes, I am well aware that the show is not going to kill off Felicity Smoak. That doesn't actually matter from a storytelling perspective. A good story can and will make you worry about those things, no matter how popular the character is, or how unlikely killing off a cast member that big is. And yeah, I did feel relief even if I knew deep down she was all right. It was a legit storytelling choice, and even if I wouldn't have done it, I totally understand and accept the show doing it.

Now amazing, but not full of unforced errors like the premiere of Riverdale was. As far as Berlantiverse goes, I'll call that an outright win. ****.
 

Dudley

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Guess I didn’t listen closely enough. I thought Diaz, left as means to scare her. Regardless, the ARGUS save is a very weird thing to cut out.
We’re not off to a good start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

hobbyfan

Well-Known Member
So instead of flashing back, we flash forward now. Whee.

Still feel Diaz should've been caught at the end of last season. Why did they do this? Because the writers are morons. Diaz figured out where Felicity & William were, and he would probably have connections to the witness protection program. He has to be captured NOW! End this storyline before the crossover in December.

Berlanti employs idiots on his writing staff. No research, no common sense.

Anyone think Laurel is still working the double agent angle?

Cody Rhodes (Runnels) returns as Derek Sampson. Didn't think it'd be this quick, but I knew he'd re-upped. Vinnie Jones has lost whatever appeal he had as an actor. The sooner Ollie's back on the streets, the better.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious Roy's under the hood. Remember, he left with Thea before the end of last season, so he's been gone more than five months. The reason Dinah, Rene, & Curtis haven't thought of it is because of the moron writers.

Any of us could write this better.
 

The Penguin

All Hail the King!
Staff member
Moderator
New Arrow! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"The Longbow Hunters"
Monday, October 22, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
In order to track down Diaz from inside prison, Oliver realizes that will require aligning with an old enemy.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Arrow "The Longbow Hunters"

Good week. I mean, yeah. Good week. Let's pick through the nitty gritty.

I found Oliver framing the guard for stabbing him to be highly unethical, especially since the guy had a previously spotless record. But do you know why it was clever (besides keeping the guy alive?) First off, it was the best situation of no good options. It was either that or the guy dies. At least this way, the guy lives, and Oliver collects his favor from Brick. The second smart thing about the solution is that from what I know and have seen of Brick, self-sacrifice and being willing to do whatever it takes on his behalf is something Brick values. He's the kind of guy who respects men who bleed for him. So while he may have ordered Oliver to handle that an entirely different way, I have to think that would have secretly impressed him more.

Oliver's buddy thinks he's untouchable. It untrue, but it's endearing. I love that he calls their hijinks Green Arrow missions. That isn't what they are, but if I were working with Oliver Queen on a random project I'd call it that too.

Emily Bett Rickards sounds like she has a cold, or at least a sore throat. I don't know why this is, but for some reason she is emoting better than usual because of it. Is it possible because colds are frustrating and draining which is why Felicity is able to channel that so perfectly? Or does the cold simply make her voice sound deeper, raspier, and harsher? It's hard to say, but were I John Diggle I would have taken a couple of steps back from her during several points in the episode.

Laurel claims she is not That Person any more and actually cared about Quentin. While I think the Quentin thing is true, the truth is she WAS That Person less than a year ago. It's way too soon to be claiming a triumph of personal growth in that short an amount of time. I think her apology to Dinah was a good start. But that's all it was: A start. As far as I'm concerned she is owed no benefit of the doubt by Dinah merely by her own sayso.

Good to know the flashforwards won't take place entirely on Lian Yu. That would have been beyond frustrating to me if they had taken a whole season on the island. The flashforwards in Lost were amazing because they could take place anywhere with any character, and you were always surprised and learned new things. I hope and think that's what Arrow is going for.

Very cool William is gay. But it sounds like he hasn't seen Oliver or Felicity since she shipped him off to that boarding school.

One of the things I have to keep in mind about the flashforwards boxing things in is that this is the Arrowverse. If the flashforwards this season get a bad reception from viewers, I am encouraged that they could simply have Flash or the Legends undo it via time travel if they mess up the story too badly. I was really worried last week, but I forgot that there is an escape hatch built into two of the main premises of the Arrowverse. I hope they don't eff things up so badly they'll need to use them. This is Berlanti so it could go either way. But a retcon is possible if things get too big a mess.

As I said, it was a good week. ****.
 

Road to Gotham

Well-Known Member
I have hoping since ARROW started that Red Dart would appear.
Although I thought it would be the original version "Jonathan Mallory" whose 1st appearance was in WORLD'S FINEST COMICS #95.
But the female Red Dart is cool, love the shades.
 

hobbyfan

Well-Known Member
I have hoping since ARROW started that Red Dart would appear.
Although I thought it would be the original version "Jonathan Mallory" whose 1st appearance was in WORLD'S FINEST COMICS #95.
But the female Red Dart is cool, love the shades.
Don't know if the female Red Dart comes from the books, but she may just be this show's answer to Shades over on Luke Cage..!

Silencer in this series uses a null field, but no costume. Ok.

IIRC, in the books, wasn't Connor Hawke (Ollie's son) also retconned as gay? Connor was part of DC's mid-90's youth movement, in case anyone doesn't know. Think I read somewhere that he'd been outed or came out, but I don't have all the details.

Dinah & Laurel have achieved peace. That works.

Diaz makes a brief appearance. At least he didn't chew the scenery this time.
 

Yojimbo

Yes, have some.
Staff member
Moderator
Don't know if the female Red Dart comes from the books, but she may just be this show's answer to Shades over on Luke Cage..!
She's a recent addition in the comics, somewhere between New 52 and Rebirth off the top of my head.
 

Otaku-sempai

Well-Known Member
So, does the name Longbow Hunters actually make sense in the context of the show? Yes, the name comes from Mike Grell's limited series, but there it referred to Ollie and Shado. Much later, the LBH team was assembled specifically to take on Green Arrow; that's not so much the case here. Does anyone on the team of assassins at least use a longbow?
 
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The Penguin

All Hail the King!
Staff member
Moderator
"Crossing Lines"
Monday, October 29, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Still in prison, Oliver faces his biggest challenge yet.
 

hobbyfan

Well-Known Member
I remember Mike Grell's Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters miniseries back in the day. Don't remember the Hunters being more than a 1-shot thing. Silencer came from the League of Assassins in the books, and, as we know, has her own book, where she's a hero or anti-hero.

Hate the snail's pace of this storyline. Since Ollie's part of the crossover, he'd have to be out by then.

Surprising to see Watson wave good-bye. Sounds like there might be a cover-up related to Diaz (what a shock).

I'm wondering if Cody Runnels (nee Rhodes) choreographed his fight sequences himself. He & Stephen Amell have become buds the last three years, so it'd make sense.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Arrow "Crossing Lines"

The problem of the teaser reminds the viewer that context is everything. That being said, the teaser didn't work. The show does so many fake-out dream sequences that I wasn't sure whether Oliver was dreaming that scenario until we hit the "Blank Hours Earlier" caption. And while there were no fake-out dream sequences in this episode, I hope everyone can see exactly how damaging they are to any franchise. They are not a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too. It means I question the veracity of everything I see onscreen, which is bad. It's terrible from a storytelling perspective. I should be allowed to express shock as Oliver stabs a prison guard. But I cannot in the moment it is happening, because I'm not sure it actually is. And I take shots at the show using the fake-outs it does. This is why I take those shots. Because they weaken the show, and even weaken episodes that don't use the trope. Nothing bad happening in Arrow will land as hard as it needs to because The Arrowverse traffics in fake-out dreams sequences. And that's a problem for a drama. I don't want to be one of those fans who bashes the writers' intelligence or question why they have jobs. That's not productive. But the truth is, this is not something that would ever effect a competent show. Not in a million years. As much smack as I talk about the Buffyverse, most of the rare fake-out sequences they did were things that you could pretty much already tell were dreams at the time. I never questioned the reality of the rest of the show. And this is the precise reason that trope is so damaging. I think the teaser failed, therefore the episode did too, due to things that didn't even happen in this episode. And that shows how ultimately weak the show is in my mind, and why I will never be able to enjoy it properly ever again. And I feel sad about that, especially because this episode taken by itself was actually pretty good! But I was moved by it much less than I should have been, because the earlier episodes had routinely been trafficking in pure nonsense and I can never tell what's what and when I'm being jerked around. And that's a shame, because as I said, the episode was pretty good.

Diaz has sort of been the White Whale this season, but what's interesting is that he has much less screentime now than did before. To be honest, I love the fact that Kirk Acevedo used to EMOTE (read hammily overact) but it's interesting they've kept the character relatively grounded so far this year, even when he's trying to assassinate Felicity, or juicing on a chemical that gives him superstrength.

I was not surprised Silencer was secretly captured. But I figured it happened under Felicity's nose, and was Rene's doing alone. This is much better. This is much more interesting because Felicity lets a woman who risked her career for her be fired rather than giving away the best lead they have. It's despicable, but like any despicable thing Felicity ever does, it's "Felicity Despicable". It's not something I'd ever complain about another character doing, and I'll easily be able to forgive her. Heck, at this point, I'm not even mad.

I like that the show is giving Bronze Tiger some nuance. It bums me out that Oliver is changing levels for next week right as that happened. Bronze Tiger is supposed to be a hero in the DC Universe. And it seemed like the show seemed to be starting to set him up for that. But they won't ever get to it as long as Oliver's has moved levels. Too bad.

Dig and Lilah's arc seems very predictable to me of him distrusting her, her proving her loyalty, and him realizing he's a chump. Maybe if I'm being charitable it's not simply predictable. It's consistent. It's a constant factor in their relationship, and something John is going to have to deal with that more than usual because they are now working together. Just because I saw every beat coming doesn't mean it bothered me.

No flashforwards this week. Good. I don't like them, and they seem to lessen my enjoyment a bit week by week. I'm glad they won't an Every Episode Thing, like the flashbacks were for the first five seasons.

The climatic fight scene was amazing. Thought that was worth mentioning.

That was a good episode. That I'm giving a failing grade simply because the show was unable to move me in the way it was trying to because I don't believe in it anymore. That's really unfortunate. **.
 

Otaku-sempai

Well-Known Member
There seems to some confusion over the LONGBOW HUNTERS name.
Yes it was a Mike Grell GA mini-series.
But in the New52/Rebirth era its a name of a villains group, enemies of GA.
Although Killer Moth is a member he is not an enemy of GA.

Hopefully this article will clear things up.

'Arrow’: Who Are The Longbow Hunters? [Updated]
Oh, I know all of that, and at least Brick is present in the show even though he isn't one of the Longbow Hunters here. My question is whether the name makes any sense in the context of Arrow, where they are a legendary group of assassins and not a team gathered together specifically to oppose Green Arrow?
 
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Yojimbo

Yes, have some.
Staff member
Moderator
My question is whether the name makes any sense in the context of Arrow, where they are a legendary group of assassins and not a team gathered together specifically to oppose Green Arrow?
Considering the number of archers that have popped up or predated Oliver, they've been slacking off...
 

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