"Archie Goes There" talkback

Peter Paltridge

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http://www.platypuscomix.net/otherpeople/archiegoesthere.html

To create the "Riverdale and Back Again" scan I had to dig up my old box of comic books and sift through it. That's when I found the old ratty comic from 1981. I have no idea where I got it, especially since I hated the series it's a part of (Richie Rich), but you know what puzzles me the most to this day? This portion of a Saturday Morning ad:



"ZAP IS WHERE IT'S AT WHEN IT COMES TO ALBERT THE FAT."

.................WHAT???

Is there any explanation?
 

Zorak Masaki

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Actually, i think there were some Spire Archie comics that dealt with sex and drugs, if just in passing. Of course, those comics were aimed at a different audience than the regular Archie comics (ive heard that the owners of Archie comics were shocked at how much they dealt with more mature issues).
 

Peter Paltridge

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Actually, i think there were some Spire Archie comics that dealt with sex and drugs, if just in passing. Of course, those comics were aimed at a different audience than the regular Archie comics (ive heard that the owners of Archie comics were shocked at how much they dealt with more mature issues).

The Spire Archies certainly mentioned drugs, but I kept them off the table for the reason you mentioned.
 

Shawn Hopkins

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There was a Spire comic that portrayed Reggie as a date rapist in one panel. Reggie, generally pretty much a harmless prankster, raped a girl. That was the problem with the Spires, to tackle the "issues" they wanted to tackle with the characters they had they needed to stretch most of them until they were nearly unrecognizable.

Oh, and I do have an issue of Betty where Betty falls in with the "wrong crowd" and starts doing bad stuff. Though it isn't explicitly shown what she's been doing, the way the other characters react and from the type of people she hangs out with you get the impression it's much more along the sex and drugs line than the tipping cows area.
 

Peter Paltridge

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There was a Spire comic that portrayed Reggie as a date rapist in one panel. Reggie, generally pretty much a harmless prankster, raped a girl. That was the problem with the Spires, to tackle the "issues" they wanted to tackle with the characters they had they needed to stretch most of them until they were nearly unrecognizable.

I never saw anything close to that in a Spire Archie -- are you sure you weren't just blowing something out of proportion? Which issue was it?
 

Shawn Hopkins

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I never saw anything close to that in a Spire Archie -- are you sure you weren't just blowing something out of proportion? Which issue was it?

It's in Archie's Love Scene.



The keys here is the context of the "talk" that Betty is giving about sex, the phrase "that kind of love," and the disheveled, forlorn look of the girl after the deed is done. Reggie forced himself on her, if we're to believe Al Hartley.

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2059796.html

Oh yeah, they also did this "Deliverance" story in Life With Archie.



So what do you guys think two hillbillies modeled after a movie about rape are going to do with half-naked Betty, alone in their swamp hut?
 
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Peter Paltridge

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The Deliverance image isn't showing up.

Yeah, you're blowing it out of proportion. If you include the previous two panels, you get the message Hartley was going for (which I agree with):



If she had really been raped she would be covered in bruises and her clothing would not be perfectly intact. She would also be crying. And the date wouldn't have gone on so long that he could drop her off at her house. Reggie would also not be neatly wiping away her lip prints with a handkerchief either. Rape victims are not exactly in the kissing mood.

I think you're just seeing what you want to see. She's sad because the whole date meant nothing to Reggie.
 

Shawn Hopkins

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Peter Paltridge said:
The Deliverance image isn't showing up.

Yeah, you're blowing it out of proportion. If you include the previous two panels, you get the message Hartley was going for (which I agree with):

If she had really been raped she would be covered in bruises and her clothing would not be perfectly intact. She would also be crying. And the date wouldn't have gone on so long that he could drop her off at her house. Reggie would also not be neatly wiping away her lip prints with a handkerchief either. Rape victims are not exactly in the kissing mood.

I think you're just seeing what you want to see. She's sad because the whole date meant nothing to Reggie.

No, rape isn't alway something that leaves bruises, especially not date rape, and not every rape victim is dumped in the woods. It's just about taking what you want without consent, and Reggie is definitely in a "no means yes" mode there. Kisses are just the comics shorthand for sexual activity in this case, and if you read it in context with Betty's message that I linked to, you get what Hartley was trying to tell the girls who were reading loud and clear. Boys want only one thing, and some of them lie about love for it and some of them will take it, so stay away from these situations and save yourself for marriage. I think Hartley is probably too stuck in the 50s to understand that date rape was what he was portraying, in his world the girl made the mistake by going parking with Reggie and whatever followed was a consequence of that bad decision. But most of us don't think that way anymore.

And this is the other problem with Spire Archies. They can be such a downer.
 

Peter Paltridge

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No, rape isn't alway something that leaves bruises, especially not date rape, and not every rape victim is dumped in the woods. It's just about taking what you want without consent, and Reggie is definitely in a "no means yes" mode there. Kisses are just the comics shorthand for sexual activity in this case, and if you read it in context with Betty's message that I linked to, you get what Hartley was trying to tell the girls who were reading loud and clear. Boys want only one thing, and some of them lie about love for it and some of them will take it, so stay away from these situations and save yourself for marriage. I think Hartley is probably too stuck in the 50s to understand that date rape was what he was portraying, in his world the girl made the mistake by going parking with Reggie and whatever followed was a consequence of that bad decision. But most of us don't think that way anymore.

And this is the other problem with Spire Archies. They can be such a downer.

No, no, no. Hartley was not the kind of guy who would draw Reggie raping a girl, and if he knew you were interpreting it that way, he would have approached the scene differently.

The message was not "all men are evil and will hurt you because this is Lifetime" either. The message was that lust is not the same thing as love. I agree, and I wish more people were committed to spreading that message around.
 

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