What Happened to Animation's "Middle Ground"?

[Goldstar!]

Okay, so where would the current crop of action animation aimed at adults like Arcane, Castlevania, or Invincible fit in?

The only one of those shows that I've actually seen is Invincible, and I've only a couple of episodes of that. Based on what I have seen, I would say that Invincible falls pretty firmly in the bleak and dark category. It's also graphically violent. Definitely not a Saturday morning cartoon.

In hindsight, my describing some recent animated series as being "anti-fun" may have been a tad vague, so I'm going to attempt to clarify my original description:

Shows such as Castlevania are dark by design. Their very premise is to tackle dark themes. By anti-fun, I was talking about shows in which the entire series is bult on the premise of "We're miserable, but we must move on". The shows in which the theme is that the world sucks, everything sucks and no one gets to be happy.. Shows like Infinity Train, Kibo and the Wonderbeasts, F is for Family, Digital Circus and Unicorn Wars, which was utterly joyless and was straight-up misery porn. Yeah, I get it. These producers and directors want to push the boundaries of modern animation by making something that deals with mature themes and is devoid of any kind of joy or happiness. These are the total antithesis of the more conventional animated shows which have a general positive outlook on life. There are a few pitfalls, but generally speaking, life is OK for them.

For the record, I'm not saying that shows the aforementioned shouldn't exist, not am I advocating for there to be less of them. The dark and edgy cartoons most certainly have their place, even if I'm not a fan of them personally. I just would like to see more of a medium between the 2 extremes. For adults doesn't have mean dark, joyless and unpleasant to look at. Too often, fans of dark cartoons of action cartoons will instantly turn up their noses at shows like Uncle Grandpa and dismiss them as being "kid stuff". Anyone who thinks that having a positive outlook or a sense of humor equates to "kid stuff" needs to develop a sense of humor themselves. It's always best to have a variety. If all cartoons were the same, it would be very boring.

And yeah, the 1990s to early 2000s Cartoon-Cartoons that @Silverstar mentioned are the kind of cartoons that I'd like to see more of. Those were creator driven comedies that were funny, bold and daring, but never (or at least rarely) mean spirited, ugly or obscene. Plus, the characters were allowed to smile and have a good time.

 

[Light Lucario]

It seems as though nowadays, every new cartoon is some dark, edgy, serialized angst fest. It's all moody. emo, edge lord stuff like Steven Universe, Adventure Time, Infinity Train, Unicorn Wars, Lakadaisy, Helluva Boss or Digital Circus. The only cartoons that don't fall into this category are preschool shows. It's either Cocomelon or South Park, with nothing in between. I don't like dark cartoons, but I don't want to just watch cartoons for the pre-K crowd either. What happened to the middle ground? Why is no one making cartoons that are just fun, with no sagas, angst or heavy subject matter? Where are the new shows like Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy, Dexter's Laboratory or Rocko's Modern Life going to come from? The only recent animated series that seem to be middle-of-the-road are Big City Greens and Kiff, and the former is a show that I respect more than I actually like (I wish BCG were funnier).

I realize as I'm writing this, that I'm teetering dangerously into "grumpy old man yelling at the clouds" territory, but I'll take something like Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry over Unicorn Wars, Kibo and the Wonderbeasts or Learning with Pibby any day of the week. I'd rather play Super Mario Brothers than The Last of Us. I'm that weirdo.

OK, perhaps edge lord was a poor choice of terminology. I'll substitute that with "anti-fun".

As a huge Steven Universe fan, I don't think I can properly express how bizarre it is to see the series being described as moody, emo, edge lord stuff. Even anti-fun isn't really any better. I still get the point you're making, but that really feels like a huge misinterpretation of the series. Having an on-going storyline dealing with heavy topics and being emotional doesn't make a show emo or edge lord material. Anti-fun also comes off a bit too dismissive, but that is at least a more subjective kind of view of the series by comparison. I'm only kind of familiar with Adventure Time by comparison, but calling it edge lord stuff is pretty strange too. I could understand that term used for its recent spin-off series from what I've seen and heard about it more so than the original series, but it still feels pretty strange. It's perfectly fine if you don't care for either series or didn't find them to be enjoyable of course. It just felt so weird for me to see that when I first checked this thread.

I don't think it's that weird to choose Super Mario Brothers over The Last of Us either, but I also mainly just play Pokemon and platformer games.

The only one of those shows that I've actually seen is Invincible, and I've only a couple of episodes of that. Based on what I have seen, I would say that Invincible falls pretty firmly in the bleak and dark category. It's also graphically violent. Definitely not a Saturday morning cartoon.

In hindsight, my describing some recent animated series as being "anti-fun" may have been a tad vague, so I'm going to attempt to clarify my original description:

Shows such as Castlevania are dark by design. Their very premise is to tackle dark themes. By anti-fun, I was talking about shows in which the entire series is bult on the premise of "We're miserable, but we must move on". The shows in which the theme is that the world sucks, everything sucks and no one gets to be happy.. Shows like Infinity Train, Kibo and the Wonderbeasts, F is for Family, Digital Circus and Unicorn Wars, which was utterly joyless and was straight-up misery porn. Yeah, I get it. These producers and directors want to push the boundaries of modern animation by making something that deals with mature themes and is devoid of any kind of joy or happiness. These are the total antithesis of the more conventional animated shows which have a general positive outlook on life. There are a few pitfalls, but generally speaking, life is OK for them.

Out of those shows, I've only seen Infinity Train, so I can't really comment on the other series listed there. I think claiming that it deals with mature themes and is devoid of any kind of joy or happiness kind of feels like missing the point of the series. Each season does focus on a lot of personal issues for the characters and it can get dark, especially the third season, but the characters typically struggle to learn to become better people and grow throughout each season. The leads for each season learn to have a more positive outlook on life or are able to overcome their struggles to become better people. Maybe what you're saying applies more to the other shows you listed, but I don't think it quite works for Infinity Train. At the very least, it seems to really not make sense with how I interpret the series.

I do still get the basic message here. Animated series tend to either be aimed at really little kids, if not the preschool crowd, or directly at adults. It's the idea that most series are either to one extreme or the other and we don't have a lot of shows in-between that as the middle ground that are just for slightly older kids. Honestly, I don't really see it as being that much of a problem. Most of the recent shows for Cartoon Network and Disney Channel are still for kids. Shows like Craig of the Creek, Big City Greens, Tiny Toons Loonaveristy and Gumball are just fun slice of life cartoons for kids. Shows like Steven Universe and The Owl House may have attracted older fans and have on-going storylines, but they still are made for kids in mind. You could argue that we have fewer middle ground kind of shows, especially when most animated series that get attention are either well done shows for little kids or the animated shows for adults, but I wouldn't say that we don't have any kind of middle ground shows between the various kids TV channels and streaming services either.

 

[Pooky]

What was the last cartoon that had an "open" format where the characters could be in any societal role at any time in history and place in the world with no explanation given (or needed) ala Bugs, Tom & Jerry, Huckleberry Hound etc? The Animaniacs revival did it, but what was the last original show to do it?

 

[SweetShop209]

There's certainly a lot that can be said about how episodic and story driven have changed over times, both in terms of how they're written and how they're perceived by others. I'd say it's just important to make all kinds of shows for all kinds of audiences, and if there's a non-preschool episodic show that fits the bill for one's preferences, don't be afraid to talk about it.

 

[Zorak Masaki]

I'd say The Great North is an adult cartoon that doesnt rely on "edgy" humor as well. As for cartoons that arent "lore-heavy", Hamster and Gretel and Hailey's On It qualify. They have an overarching story, but it's not really neccesary to have seen every episode to know what's going on, and the majority of eps are stand-alone.

 

[Fone Bone]

I have some opinions to share.

@Goldstar! , @Silverstar , I am almost as old a fogey as you guys, and I gotta say I don't really agree with the premise of the thread since Goldstar has sort of refined the parameters. I did not see many of the shows you listed, but I DID see Infinity Train, and if that's your idea of Edgelord or no-fun, there really can be no pleasing you.

Why do I believe Infinity Train is not dark and depressing? Season 3 certainly had it's share of bad times. The difference to me between that and horrible stuff like Castlevania and other TV-MA action shows is that the bad things portrayed are shown as such. They aren't glamorized or done by a hero / antihero and brushed off as the price of being the badass protagonist. The show takes a clear moral stance against them, and in fact has the heroes fighting back against them, and the heroes usually wind up winning by the end of the season.

I don't thinks stakes or consequences are bad things. I don't even think DRAMA is a bad thing. I object to horrible crap happening for the sake of horrible crap happening, but if the show has a positive message and a strong protagonist, I'm willing to take the journey along with them to defeat the darkness.

And I mentioned I didn't see those other shows. But I did see the last episode of Adventure Time which very much fits into that mold.

I do think there is a problem in that animation HAS gotten too serious and dark. But please don't lump in shows exploring good and evil with that automatically. Sometimes the best feelings of happiness and satisfaction come from making it through the darkness whole and intact. A show does that, I will love it, not disdain it.

 

[Goldstar!]

I did not see many of the shows you listed, but I DID see Infinity Train, and if that's your idea of Edgelord or no-fun, there really can be no pleasing you.

I'll admit that I'm not easily impressed and that my tastes are very specific, but I wouldn't say that there's no pleasing me. I mean, I did list several shows, even ones tailored for adults that I do/did enjoy. :/

Why do I believe Infinity Train is not dark and depressing? Season 3 certainly had it's share of bad times. The difference to me between that and horrible stuff like Castlevania and other TV-MA action shows is that the bad things portrayed are shown as such. They aren't glamorized or done by a hero / antihero and brushed off as the price of being the badass protagonist. The show takes a clear moral stance against them, and in fact has the heroes fighting back against them, and the heroes usually wind up winning by the end of the season.

All right. Clearly, I haven't seen enough of Infinity Train to accurately judge it. On the surface at least, it looks like one of those shows in which the characters are constantly fighting for survival and are never allowed to have a moment of pleasure or happiness. However, ever since I created this thread, I've been hearing from people who have seen the show who insist that it's not a no-fun having, constant misery show. Infinity Train's overall tone may not be happy, but I guess that it's at least hopeful. If I've have misjudged the show, then that's on me.

I don't think stakes or consequences are bad things. I don't even think DRAMA is a bad thing.

Neither do I. Being a fiction writer myself, I understand that conflict is needed in order to tell a story, and while I prefer comedy overall, I'm OK with shows having an occasional dramatic moment, as long as it's not like This Is Us, where the drama is the point.

I object to horrible crap happening for the sake of horrible crap happening, but if the show has a positive message and a strong protagonist, I'm willing to take the journey along with them to defeat the darkness.

That's a fair point. However, if I'm willing to give something like Infinity Train a chance, then the drama loving people should be equally as willing to give Uncle Grandpa a second look. Overall, though, you should just like whatever you like. As Brian Zane of Wrestling With Wregret says, "Like what you like, just don't be a jerk" (paraphrased).

 

[Fone Bone]

I'll admit that I'm not easily impressed and that my tastes are very specific, but I wouldn't say that there's no pleasing me. I mean, I did list several shows, even ones tailored for adults that I do/did enjoy. :/



All right. Clearly, I haven't seen enough of Infinity Train to accurately judge it. On the surface at least, it looks like one of those shows in which the characters are constantly fighting for survival and are never allowed to have a moment of pleasure or happiness. However, ever since I created this thread, I've been hearing from people who have seen the show who insist that it's not a no-fun having, constant misery show. Infinity Train's overall tone may not be happy, but I guess that it's at least hopeful. If I've have misjudged the show, then that's on me.



Neither do I. Being a fiction writer myself, I understand that conflict is needed in order to tell a story, and while I prefer comedy overall, I'm OK with shows having an occasional dramatic moment, as long as it's not like This Is Us, where the drama is the point.



That's a fair point. However, if I'm willing to give something like Infinity Train a chance, then the drama loving people should be equally as willing to give Uncle Grandpa a second look. Overall, though, you should just like whatever you like. As Brian Zane of Wrestling With Wregret says, "Like what you like, just don't be a jerk" (paraphrased).

The thing I most remember about Infinity Train is how pleasurably weird it was. Some truly bizarre characters and concepts are in the background of people boarding the train essentially to better themselves. It's fun is what it is. That's what made the dark turns in Season 3 such a shock and have resonance. Because the show was not usually that.

 

[Light Lucario]

All right. Clearly, I haven't seen enough of Infinity Train to accurately judge it. On the surface at least, it looks like one of those shows in which the characters are constantly fighting for survival and are never allowed to have a moment of pleasure or happiness. However, ever since I created this thread, I've been hearing from people who have seen the show who insist that it's not a no-fun having, constant misery show. Infinity Train's overall tone may not be happy, but I guess that it's at least hopeful. If I've have misjudged the show, then that's on me.

I am kind of curious just how much of Infinity Train you did see. Even going by just the first few episodes of season one, I don't think it'd be accurate to describe it as a no fun having, constant misery show. It is serious and has dark moments, but there is still some moments of levity, some fun to have during different train carts and giving the audience a breather before things get serious. It isn't like everything is dark and unhappy until each season finale either. If it was just all misery all the time, then season three, the darkest season out of the bunch, wouldn't have stood out nearly as much to fans. At most, I'd say that the first season was a bit on the nose with its message about dealing with divorce, but it was still fine.

If you want to use a show like this for your basic point, it would be better to accurately judge it. You don't have see every single episode to understand Infinity Train or any other series of course, but it just feels really weird to see it lumped together with other supposedly heavy and dark series when each season ultimately ends with the protagonists being better people feels off to me. It's like calling Steven Universe edge lord material when emotional honesty and the importance of communication are some of the core themes of the series. It feels like you're really misjudging or misunderstanding a series and then using that to support your claim about not having middle ground shows, which is probably another reason why I don't really see this as a problem like you do.

 

[SuperSuck64]

I get where OP is coming from but they're just not phrasing it well.

The issue isn't that these shows are necessarily "edgy" or "anti-fun" or even that dark - I think what they're trying to say is that every single episode needs to feel like an emotional gut punch. "Kick you in the feels", so to speak.

Like how Adventure Time and Steven Universe started out as wacky/chill slice of life with the occasional deep moment, whereas in the later seasons every single episode was an emotional rollercoaster where everything and everyone had some ultra-serious, tragic backstory or explanation, all of which are meticulously interconnected and important to the grand scheme of things. There were still funny and uplifting moments, yes, but it all had this underlying sense of needing to feel "mature" and "deeper", for lack of better phrasing. It's almost like they were saying, "This is so serious, you need to take everything seriously. You can't just be laughing, if we're only funny then this isn't real art, we need to make you cry and feel the weight of this extreme drama when this is over".

And honestly, I agree, I'm kind of tired of everything being a pretentious lore-fest that's impossible to follow and has an inflated sense of importance from the idea that you're not worthwhile if you're just being fun or silly. It's almost the creative equivalent of a little kid trying to act grown-up by doing everything they do while shunning anything "kiddy".

I don't want to be one of those "back in my day" people but I feel like some older shows like Avatar (which I'm not even a huge fanboy of) really found the right balance of tone. Yes, it was a serious, lore-heavy story with a lot of drama and character growth, but it balanced it out with a lot of humor and optimism. It knew when to be lighthearted and upbeat, it could still tell standalone stories while building up to something bigger at the same time, and it clearly established its tone from the start so it never felt jarring seeing these characters go from silly to serious. Everything just worked together so perfectly.

Or, for a more recent example (as in "ten years ago now, WHAT"), Gravity Falls got a lot more dramatic and continuity-heavy later on yet never lost its weird sense of humor or heart. The show was already weird and creepy with tons of little details that all added up later while still accurately portraying what it was like to be a kid, so it never felt like a betrayal of its characters or world when things started getting heavier. It felt like a natural progression of both the show and getting older.

Compare that to Adventure Time, which turned into almost a completely different show from when it started where literally everything and everyone had a massively tragic backstory that all came together somehow in this massively convoluted plot, or Rick and Morty and Helluva Boss, which try to mix wacky, episodic vulgar humor with character development and overarching lore, yet refuse to fully commit to either which results in the two elements just hurting each other. Not every show needs to be funny, but not every show needs to be serious, either.

Sorry for the huge wall of text but I just feel very strongly about this kind of stuff as an aspiring creative who's sick to death of people going "OMG look at this show, it's got all this drama and lore and action and isn't just dumb jokes, why can't we have more shows like this?????" Never mind the fact that we do get plenty of shows like this, they're just not in the style/genre you want or they don't cater to your age group. Creatives shouldn't have to feel worthless just for wanting to tell simple but personal stories to try and make people laugh. Brad Bird said it best: "Animation is not a genre[...] Animation is an art form, and it can do any genre." It can be funny. It can be dramatic. It can be completely off the wall or extremely low-key and reserved. It can and should be whatever the creators want it to be. And if it's good or bad, it should be good or bad because of what it is and not what it isn't.

 

[Goldstar!]

Guys, I'm officially tapping out of this discussion. In hindsight, creating this thread was a mistake. I didn't plan this out or word it very well at all. I'll just say that I'm not vibing with some of the more recent animated shows and leave it at that/ I think that it's best to simply let this thread ride off into the sunset.

 

[aegisrawks]

I get where OP is coming from but they're just not phrasing it well.

The issue isn't that these shows are necessarily "edgy" or "anti-fun" or even that dark - I think what they're trying to say is that every single episode needs to feel like an emotional gut punch. "Kick you in the feels", so to speak.

Like how Adventure Time and Steven Universe started out as wacky/chill slice of life with the occasional deep moment, whereas in the later seasons every single episode was an emotional rollercoaster where everything and everyone had some ultra-serious, tragic backstory or explanation, all of which are meticulously interconnected and important to the grand scheme of things. There were still funny and uplifting moments, yes, but it all had this underlying sense of needing to feel "mature" and "deeper", for lack of better phrasing. It's almost like they were saying, "This is so serious, you need to take everything seriously. You can't just be laughing, if we're only funny then this isn't real art, we need to make you cry and feel the weight of this extreme drama when this is over".

And honestly, I agree, I'm kind of tired of everything being a pretentious lore-fest that's impossible to follow and has an inflated sense of importance from the idea that you're not worthwhile if you're just being fun or silly. It's almost the creative equivalent of a little kid trying to act grown-up by doing everything they do while shunning anything "kiddy".

I don't want to be one of those "back in my day" people but I feel like some older shows like Avatar (which I'm not even a huge fanboy of) really found the right balance of tone. Yes, it was a serious, lore-heavy story with a lot of drama and character growth, but it balanced it out with a lot of humor and optimism. It knew when to be lighthearted and upbeat, it could still tell standalone stories while building up to something bigger at the same time, and it clearly established its tone from the start so it never felt jarring seeing these characters go from silly to serious. Everything just worked together so perfectly.

Or, for a more recent example (as in "ten years ago now, WHAT"), Gravity Falls got a lot more dramatic and continuity-heavy later on yet never lost its weird sense of humor or heart. The show was already weird and creepy with tons of little details that all added up later while still accurately portraying what it was like to be a kid, so it never felt like a betrayal of its characters or world when things started getting heavier. It felt like a natural progression of both the show and getting older.

Compare that to Adventure Time, which turned into almost a completely different show from when it started where literally everything and everyone had a massively tragic backstory that all came together somehow in this massively convoluted plot, or Rick and Morty and Helluva Boss, which try to mix wacky, episodic vulgar humor with character development and overarching lore, yet refuse to fully commit to either which results in the two elements just hurting each other. Not every show needs to be funny, but not every show needs to be serious, either.

Sorry for the huge wall of text but I just feel very strongly about this kind of stuff as an aspiring creative who's sick to death of people going "OMG look at this show, it's got all this drama and lore and action and isn't just dumb jokes, why can't we have more shows like this?????" Never mind the fact that we do get plenty of shows like this, they're just not in the style/genre you want or they don't cater to your age group. Creatives shouldn't have to feel worthless just for wanting to tell simple but personal stories to try and make people laugh. Brad Bird said it best: "Animation is not a genre[...] Animation is an art form, and it can do any genre." It can be funny. It can be dramatic. It can be completely off the wall or extremely low-key and reserved. It can and should be whatever the creators want it to be. And if it's good or bad, it should be good or bad because of what it is and not what it isn't.

This is the best take on the whole thing. And I agree. Even if I also agree with Light Lucario that Steven Universe didnt get to the point you and Goldstar are talking about until Future came. Up until the end it was a cute and fun show-

 

[Classic Speedy]

Should be noted that execution of a light-hearted show is everything too. I was all prepared to enjoy Cuphead but was let down by its cliched scripts, largely generic humor that just didn't do it for me, and animation that, while serviceable, didn't have the same "imitating '30s Fleischer" feel that the game had.

 

[Goldstar!]

Should be noted that execution of a light-hearted show is everything too. I was all prepared to enjoy Cuphead but was let down by its cliched scripts, largely generic humor that just didn't do it for me, and animation that, while serviceable, didn't have the same "imitating '30s Fleischer" feel that the game had.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels that way about The Cuphead Show. I wanted to like that show, but I just couldn't get into it. It's the same deal with me and The Amazing World of Gumball. I thought that Gumball would be one of my jams because there are some elements that I do like, but the writing and the characters just don't do it for me.

In hindsight, I think that I have more of a problem with the hardcore fans of these edgy alternative drama cartoons that I do with the shows themselves. I'm constantly being advised to give shows like Steven Universe or Adventure Time a chance, but whenever I mention that I like shows like Uncle Grandpa or Rocko's Modern Life that contain little or no dramatic moments and are just self-contained, funny stories, these same people will make a face like somebody farted. "Comedy is for babies! You can keep your little funny ha-ha show. We grown-ups will watch real animated series that have drama and high stakes and tackle heavy subject matter. Now, away with you!" Yet no one on the internet ever calls them out on their arrogant attitude because these are the "cool" shows that everyone likes.

Case in point: The Super Mario Brothers Movie (not the live action one from 1993). Listen, it's perfectly fine if you didn't like the movie, but I think that a lot of the so-called critics who dumped on the film did so for flawed reasoning. If your reason for not liking The Super Mario Brothers Movie is because "There was no drama or high stakes!" My response is "Why were you looking for drama and high stakes in the Super Mario Brothers Movie?" "It didn't make me cry like in a Pixar movie!" Dude, did playing any of the games ever make you cry? We're talking about a movie based on the Super Mario Bros video game franchise that was produced by Illumination, the Minions people. If you came into this film expecting it to be Toy Story, well, that's on you. Again, it's cool if you didn't like the movie, but don't hate on the movie for not being something that it never claimed to be in the first place.

Once more, I don't have a problem with shows like Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Hazbin Hotel and the like existing, but I dislike the mentality that these are (or should be) the only types of cartoons that deserve to be praised or appreciated. I hate it when people write off comedy as being "kid stuff" or say that if there's no drama or tragedy, then it's junk not worthy or their time. Not everybody can be Rebecca Sugar. Her style of storytelling works for her, but somebody's got to be the laugh guy.

I also disagree that Family Guy should be the archetype for adult animation. Family Guy started out funny, but then it devolved into being nothing more than a shock fest. Modern Family Guy's only quality is that these are all terrible people who do despicable things, and they all openly hate one another. That particular formula works for It's Always Sunny in Philidelphia, but every adult cartoon doesn't have to employ this formula. You can have an enjoyable adult comedy in the which the character designs aren't crude, ugly and unpleasant to look at, the characters aren't morally bankrupt and the "jokes' aren't just hateful and gross.

 

[Pooky]

Case in point: The Super Mario Brothers Movie (not the live action one from 1993). Listen, it's perfectly fine if you didn't like the movie, but I think that a lot of the so-called critics who dumped on the film did so for flawed reasoning. If your reason for not liking The Super Mario Brothers Movie is because "There was no drama or high stakes!" My response is "Why were you looking for drama and high stakes in the Super Mario Brothers Movie?" "It didn't make me cry like in a Pixar movie!" Dude, did playing any of the games ever make you cry? We're talking about a movie based on the Super Mario Bros video game franchise that was produced by Illumination, the Minions people. If you came into this film expecting it to be Toy Story, well, that's on you. Again, it's cool if you didn't like the movie, but don't hate on the movie for not being something that it never claimed to be in the first place.

Can you point me towards any reviews that said it was disappointing because it wasn't a Toy Story level experience? I only saw reviews that criticised it for being bland and uninspired, which was accurate in my opinion. People often assume that if critics don't like a film they liked it's because they were expecting too much; not so, you can meet a film on its own level and still be disappointed. Case in point, it actually got poorer reviews than most of Illumination's previous films, including 4 of the 5 Despicable Me/Minions films. Now that I don't think is fair. All 5 are better.

And actually, the Minions are a good example of how old school, just-for-laughs characters can still hit big. Love em or hate em they're extremely popular, and have been for over a decade.

 

[Light Lucario]

In hindsight, I think that I have more of a problem with the hardcore fans of these edgy alternative drama cartoons that I do with the shows themselves. I'm constantly being advised to give shows like Steven Universe or Adventure Time a chance, but whenever I mention that I like shows like Uncle Grandpa or Rocko's Modern Life that contain little or no dramatic moments and are just self-contained, funny stories, these same people will make a face like somebody farted. "Comedy is for babies! You can keep your little funny ha-ha show. We grown-ups will watch real animated series that have drama and high stakes and tackle heavy subject matter. Now, away with you!" Yet no one on the internet ever calls them out on their arrogant attitude because these are the "cool" shows that everyone likes.

I'm kind of surprised that people would react that way for Rocko's Modern Life. I can understand people reacting like that for Uncle Grandpa, but given that it's one of a beloved 90's Nicktoon, you'd think that it wouldn't be that hard for people to give Rocko's Modern Life a chance. Admittedly, I haven't really come across fans like that in regards to animated comedies or dramas. I can definitely see it playing it out like that, but since I haven't experienced myself, it doesn't really feel like a huge issue.

And considering how people argue over Steven Universe even to this day, I don't think that it would be necessarily considered a cool show that everyone likes. I adore it and think that the backlash it got was largely excessive, but I don't see people making huge three hour videos explaining why Uncle Grandpa is actually bad on YouTube like I have with Steven Universe.

 

[Fone Bone]

Can you point me towards any reviews that said it was disappointing because it wasn't a Toy Story level experience? I only saw reviews that criticised it for being bland and uninspired, which was accurate in my opinion. People often assume that if critics don't like a film they liked it's because they were expecting too much; not so, you can meet a film on its own level and still be disappointed. Case in point, it actually got poorer reviews than most of Illumination's previous films, including 4 of the 5 Despicable Me/Minions films. Now that I don't think is fair. All 5 are better.

And actually, the Minions are a good example of how old school, just-for-laughs characters can still hit big. Love em or hate em they're extremely popular, and have been for over a decade.

I loved watching the Super Mario Bros Movie. It was like eating an ice cream sundae for me. Yeah, it's bad for me, and it'll make me fat(ter), but damn it, let me enjoy this, all right? It's tastes good!

 

[Goldstar!]

Can you point me towards any reviews that said it was disappointing because it wasn't a Toy Story level experience?

The Angry Joe Show and Jack Packard of The Escapist (escapistmagazine.com). Believe me, I wish that I was making this stuff up.

And I'm not saying that The Super Mario Brothers Movie was beyond criticism. But saying that the movie wasn't good because it wasn't high art is ridiculous. I don't see see how the SMB Movie could have been any more of a Mario movie. SMB was a popcorn movie that did precisely what it set out to do: put Mario and Luigi's adventures in the Mushroom Kingdom on the big screen. No more, no less. Was it perfect? Hell no, but a movie doesn't have to be edgy or deep; the only thing that should matter is if the movie is good.

 

[Fone Bone]

People never believe me when I tell them I actually have low standards. The amount of crap I talk about stuff? And yet, the fact that I love The Super Mario Bros Movie proves it.

I want you to think a LITTLE differently about the stuff I bash in the future. Maybe my standards aren't impossibly high. Maybe the stuff I bash is so awful because it can't do the bare minimum The Super Mario Bros Movie did. It's certainly not because I am some refined culture snob.

Did you hear Yoshi pop out of the egg in that tag? "Yoshi!" Yay! I am very easy to please. And I always was.

 

[Pooky]

I loved watching the Super Mario Bros Movie. It was like eating an ice cream sundae for me. Yeah, it's bad for me, and it'll make me fat(ter), but damn it, let me enjoy this, all right? It's tastes good!

Which is great. But I'm confident that I came to it with the appropriate expectations, and I was still disappointed (if I loved Rise of Gru and Sonic the Hedgehog 2, I should have at least liked this). And neither me nor anyone else saying so is not knocking the ice cream out of your hand.

@Goldstar! , thank you for answering, I just watched a bit of that Escapist review, and I haven't seen him mention Toy Story but, yeah, fair enough, he seems pretty grouchy and hyperbolic.