"Young Justice" News & Discussion Thread, Part 36 (Spoilers)

Yojimbo

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Welcome to the 36th installment of the largest Young Justice discussion thread online!

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Check out the Young Justice subsite here at The World's Finest!

PHANTOMS
Episodes 1-2 Stream October 16, 2021
Episodes 3-13 Steam October 21 to December 30, 2021
Episodes 14-16 Stream March 31, 2022
Episodes 17-26 Stream April 7, 2022 to June 9, 2022

OUTSIDERS
Episode 1-13 Streams: January 4 to January 25, 2019
Episode 14-26 Streams: July 2 to August 27, 2019
Digital HD Release: September 24, 2019
Blu-Ray and DVD Release: November 26, 2019

Series Description:
New twists, turns and dangerous new threats for the Team. This series is produced by Warner Bros. Animation and based upon characters from DC Comics. Sam Register (Teen Titans, Ben 10, Batman: The Brave and the Bold) is the executive producer. Brandon Vietti (Batman: Under the Red Hood, Superman Doomsday, The Batman) and Greg Weisman (Gargoyles, The Spectacular Spider-Man, W.I.T.C.H.) are the producers.

This thread is for general discussion of the Young Justice animated series and related products (i.e., comics, toys, etc.). Keep it locked at The World's Finest and Anime Superhero News for the latest updates!

Current Talkback
-Targets Comic Talkback
-Phantoms Season Four Talkback Part 1
-Outsiders One-Shot Comic Talkback
-Outsiders Season Three Talkback
-Outsiders Season Three Talkback Part 2
-Audio Play The Prize Talkback

Previous Installments:

Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion. Keep your posts the thoughtful, relevant and insightful. Do not post any improper or inflammatory material, in addition to conducting yourself in a proper and civilized manner. And please, don't post for just the sake of posting. Have something of worth to add to the conversation. We will issue warnings and infractions if we believe it necessary. Remember, keep discussions ON-TOPIC!

Current Known News By Topic
Season 5 and on
  1. Back in season one they had five seasons planned out but as of Fall 2021, they have a fairly clear idea through seven seasons and vaguer ideas beyond that. Greg Tweet 10/14/21
  2. No plans for a season 5 renewal TVLine 8/17/22
Targets comic
  1. TPB collection releases July 2023 WF Tweet 8/17
Season 3 Leftovers
  1. At least 7 major characters that staff wanted to add to Season 2 that won't be appearing at all because there just wasn't any room for them. So they'll have to be saved for the comic book and/or a potential Season 3 Ask Greg 5/4/12
  2. The 12th villain from Young Justice: Legacy will play into Season 3 if the show is renewed ComicsOnline (6:33-6:53) 6/11/12
  3. Interest in incorporating some characters from Wildstorm Comics Ask Greg 7/18/12
  4. Starfire is a character the staff has talked about using GamerFitNation Interview, 8:24-8:28 mark 8/17/12
  5. More to Madame Xanadu's story than revealed so far Ask Greg 4/12/11
  6. Some more on the Green Lanterns Ask Greg 3/22/13
  7. Plans for some in this list: Vixen, Gypsy, Dr. Light, Ask Greg 3/22/13
  8. Producers had specific ideas for Earth-16 version of the Wonder Twins, Zan & Jayna. Ask Greg 4/29/13
  9. Had plans for Ravager Ask Greg 1/30/14
  10. There were plans for the unidentified alien race who sent Tiamat to Earth Ask Greg 1/31/14
  11. Eventual plans for everyone on the original list of 50+ candidates for the Team Ask Greg 3/19/14
  12. Had plans to bring in Mia Dearden/Speedy CBC Spotlight Ep 13 3/22/14 (21:46-22:05)
  13. Plans to feature Carol Ferris in later episodes. Comics Beat 4/17/19
  14. Original ideas and some that have morphed in the intervening years are being used. Ask Greg 4/10/17
New Characters Unidentified
  1. There is a hidden WildStorm character in season one and is female. Ask Greg 7/18/12, Ask Greg 9/3/13, Ask Greg 5/10/14
New Characters That Never Showed Up
  1. Catwoman Grey DeLisle Tumblr 11/5/12
Cut Storylines/Reworked into Time Skip Ask Greg 3/31/13, Life After YJ 1/10/14, Mary Sue 4/17/15, CBR 3/31/16, Ask Greg 6/13/22,
  1. Donna Troy/Troia and Mary Bromfield/Sergeant Marvel were cut from the bridal shower in "Satisfaction" because it would have required four new designs and the crew was stretched too thin.
  2. If Donna and Mary were designed, they would have appeared in "Endgame"
  3. A Red Tornado subplot in season 2 would have introduced Traya
  4. Lieutenant Marvel and Sergeant Marvel were originally considered to be on the Team in season 2
  5. A Zatanna arc - a follow up between Zatanna, Zatara, and Dr. Fate
  6. Donna Troy was originally planned to be used in season 1 but at the time, both her and Cassie Sandsmark were on the "can't use" list. By the time Geoff Johns became creative director and cleared them for use, it was too late. The next plan was have Donna cameo in season 2 but was cut for time and design constraints.
  7. Green Lantern arc involving young rookies in the Corp
  8. A musical episode
Young Justice: Invasion and Pitched Earth-16 Comic
Ideas and Unused Storylines

  1. Originally a few more issues were planned before jumping to the Invasion time frame Chris Jones 6/12/12
  2. Will see more of the JSA (and All-Star Squadron) in the comics. Ask Greg 12/9/11
  3. Will be cameos of other JSA members Youtube - DC Nation Panel 3/18/12
  4. Staff has stories in mind for JSA and A-SS WF 10/2/12
  5. The #9-10 arc revisited eventually Ask Greg 2/13/12
  6. Eventually more of Talia Ask Greg 4/16/12
  7. Will see more of Green Arrow and Black Canary's relationship explored in Issue #20-21. Ask Greg 4/16/12
  8. Earth-16 version of the DC Showcase short "Green Arrow" Ask Greg 5/8/12
  9. The Green Arrow, Black Canary, Artemis, Red Arrow story (set after Episode 1x14) was originally planned for 20-21 but will have to wait and will get to it eventually. Ask Greg 6/13/12
  10. Count Vertigo, Merlyn, Henchy, Red Arrow's life as an unwitting mole and the death of Perdita's father also figured into the Green Arrow story. WF Interview 2/19/13
  11. Marvel Family story was planned. WF Chris Jones Interview 9/18/12
  12. Billy Batson's 3 best school friends - Freddy Freeman, Kit Freeman, and Mary Bromfield would have been introduced in the Marvel story. WF Interview 2/19/13
  13. Freddy Freeman is Lieutenant Marvel and Mary Bromfield is Sergeant Marvel. Ask Greg 10/8/13
  14. Captain Marvel's origin story WF Interview 12/16/13
  15. Some more on the Green Lanterns and Martians Ask Greg 3/22/13
  16. Two-Face Nerdy Show Ep. 160
Non-Greenlit Pitches Ask Greg 3/22/13
  1. Season Three (could differ from Outsiders)
  2. Earth-16 comic book
  3. Animated spin-offs such as one featuring Arsenal and/or the Arrow Family
  4. Black Manta Celebrity Hot Tub shorts
  5. A direct to DVD movie
  6. Brandon Vietti pitched a YJ meets Scooby movie
ARCHIVED INFORMATION
Production Breakdowns
TZ 3/17/17
The Team Designations Ask Greg 8/28/12
All Designations (except 27, 28, A-06-A-09, B-26) WF 3/12/13
Z-05 Katana TZ7/23
Z-06 and Z-11 Ask Greg 10/29/21
A-06 to A-07 Ask Greg 10/3/14
A-14 Greg Weisman Tweet 11/24/16
A-15 to A-20 Ask Greg 11/21/16
G-01 to G-08 Ask Greg 8/5/21
The Light Ask Greg 3/14/22

Master Timeline
  1. Weisman's master timeline was at 139 pages Ask Greg 12/3/10
  2. 149 pages Ask Greg 1/28/11
  3. 185 pages Ask Greg 11/18/11
  4. 191 pages KSite TV Interview 4/26/12
  5. 201 pages Ask Greg 9/4/12
  6. 205 pages Ask Greg 10/4/12
  7. Completed at 250 pages (includes, everything from the two seasons, the tie-in comic, the Legacy video game, some back story such as the Golden Age, and some of the characters from the five year gap) Ask Greg 5/17/13
  8. 283 pages Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 30s minute mark
  9. 289 pages Greg Tweet 4/7/19
  10. 317 pages Ask Greg 4/25/2019
  11. 399 pages Greg Tweet 7/11/2019
  12. 609 pages Greg Tweet 6/30/2021
  13. 612 pages Ask Greg 8/13/2021
  14. 718 pages Ask Greg 12/10/2021
DC Characters
  1. By Episode 16, 135 DC characters have appeared Ask Greg 8/23/10
  2. By Episode 17, 147 DC characters have appeared Ask Greg 9/3/10
  3. By Episode 24, 174 DC characters have appeared MTV 1/14/11
  4. By Episode 26, 179 total DC characters have appeared. But that includes omitted characters like Catherine Cobert. Ask Greg 2/24/11 + Ask Greg 2/7/12
  5. Season Two, 145 name characters Ask Greg 2/7/12
  6. By Episode 46, 241 total DC characters Newsarama 3/17/12
  7. By Epsode 98, 759 total DC characters, included referenced or mentioned Ask Greg 12/20/2021
The Master List - Potential Teen Heroes to join the Team (50-60)
  1. Bombshell Ask Greg 11/10/10
  2. Raven Ask Greg 12/12/11
  3. Cyborg Ask Greg 12/12/11
  4. Starfire Ask Greg 12/12/11
  5. Beast Boy Ask Greg 12/12/11
  6. Supergirl Ask Greg 2/22/12
  7. Wonder Twins Ask Greg 5/1/12
  8. Four Blonde Teen Female Archers Greg Tweet 10/6/21
The Master List - Potential Members of The Light (100+)
  1. Count Vertigo Ask Greg 1/16/12
  2. The Joker Ask Greg 1/16/12
  3. Ultra-Humanite Ask Greg 1/16/12
  4. Atomic Skull Ask Greg 1/16/12
  5. Poison Ivy Ask Greg 1/16/12
  6. Black Adam Ask Greg 1/16/12
  7. Wotan Ask Greg 1/16/12 + Ask Greg 4/12/12
  8. Felix Faust Ask Greg 4/12/12
  9. Blackbriar Thorn Ask Greg 4/12/12
  10. Wizard Ask Greg 4/12/12
Characters Off Limits at Start of Series But Not Anymore
  1. 3-4 characters were off limits Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 21-31 minute mark
  2. Wildstorm imprint Ask Greg 7/18/12
  3. Donna Troy Ask Greg 7/17/12
  4. Cassie Sandsmark Ask Greg 7/17/12
  5. Blue Beetle/Ted Kord and Darkseid AMA 11/2/21
By Animation Studio

Lotto Animation

-Season One
  1. #3 "Welcome to Happy Harbor"
  2. #4 "Drop-Zone"
  3. #7 "Denial"
  4. #9 "Bereft"
  5. #11 "Terrors"
  6. #13 "Alpha Male"
  7. #14 "Revelation"
  8. #16 "Failsafe"
  9. #18 "Secrets"
  10. #21 "Image"
  11. #23 "Insecurity"
  12. #25 "Usual Suspects"
-Season Two Invasion
  1. #3 "Alienated"
  2. #5 "Beneath"
  3. #8 "Satisfaction"
  4. #10 "Before the Dawn"
  5. #12 "True Colors"
  6. #15 "War"
  7. #18 "Intervention"
Moi Animation
-Season One
  1. #1 "Independence Day"
  2. #2 "Fireworks"
  3. #5 "Schooled"
  4. #6 "Infiltrator"
  5. #8 "Downtime"
  6. #10 "Targets"
  7. #12 "Homefront"
  8. #15 "Humanity"
  9. #17 "Disordered"
  10. #19 "Misplaced"
  11. #20 "Coldhearted"
  12. #22 "Agendas"
  13. #24 "Performance"
  14. #26 "Auld Acquaintance"
-Season Two Invasion
  1. #1 "Happy New Year"
  2. #2 "Earthlings"
  3. #4 "Salvage"
  4. #6 "Bloodlines"
  5. #7 "Depths"
  6. #9 "Darkest"
  7. #11 "Cornered"
  8. #13 "The Fix"
  9. #14 "Runaways"
  10. #16 "Complications"
  11. #17 "The Hunt"
  12. #19 "Summit"
  13. #20 "Endgame"
Digital eMation
-Season 3 Outsiders
  1. #2 "Royal We"
  2. #3 "Eminent Threat"
  3. #6 "Rescue Op"
  4. #7 "Evolution"
  5. #9 "Home Fires"
  6. #10 "Exceptional Human Beings"
  7. #13 "True Heroes"
  8. #15 "Leverage"
  9. #18 "Early Warning"
  10. #20 "Quiet Conversations"
  11. #22 "Antisocial Pathologies"
  12. #24 "Into the Breach"
  13. #26 "Nevermore"
DR Movie
-Season 3 Outsiders
  1. #1 "Princes All"
  2. #4 "Private Security"
  3. #5 "Away Mission"
  4. #8 "Triptych"
  5. #11 "Another Freak"
  6. #14 "Influence"
  7. #17 "First Impression"
  8. #19 "Elder Wisdom"
  9. #21 "Unknown Factors"
  10. #23 "Terminus"
  11. #25 "Overwhelmed"
Studio Mir
-Season 3 Outsiders
  1. #12 "Nightmare Monkeys"
  2. #16 "Illusion of Control"
-Season 4 Phantoms
  1. All 26 episodes

Continuing from the previous topic,
I meant things like other survivors of Krypton(Kara's parents, Krypto, etc...)
in a story similar to the animated movie, Superman Unbound.
Just an example.
Yeah, seems similar to the Superman/Batman comic and Unbound DTV, except they are deviating from that story in that Kara never made it to Earth and was Supergirl for a bit. And given the show's proclivity for timeskips between seasons, I hope time doesn't make Kara more foregone and less likely to be saved/debrainwashed. I'm don't think fans are digging Mary and Kara being villains.
 
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Frontier

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Yeah, seems similar to the Superman/Batman comic and Unbound DTV, except they are deviating from that story in that Kara never made it to Earth and was Supergirl for a bit. And given the show's proclivity for timeskips between seasons, I hope time doesn't make Kara more foregone and less likely to be saved/debrainwashed. I'm don't think fans are digging Mary and Kara being villains.
I know I'm not...
 

Yojimbo

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I know I'm not...
Dare I ask, elaborate? lol. I know how you feel about Mary but don't recall with Kara. I'm sorry if you said so before, it's been a blur.

I wonder if this was their original plan for Mary and Supergirl. I remember Supergirl was on their 50+ list of Team candidates when they started working on the show.
 

Frontier

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Dare I ask, elaborate? lol. I know how you feel about Mary but don't recall with Kara. I'm sorry if you said so before, it's been a blur.

I wonder if this was their original plan for Mary and Supergirl. I remember Supergirl was on their 50+ list of Team candidates when they started working on the show.
I mean, when I think of Mary Marvel and Supergirl I don't naturally think "Female Furies loyal to Darkseid and with a chip on their shoulder against other heroes."

It feels like a lot of how they've written/established Mary was to make her Black Mary storyline make more sense than it did in the comics with the negative benefit of it not feeling like a proper adaption of her at all.

It's just kind of funny to me that they'd take the most innocent and idealistic of female heroes and posit their debut as basically villains. Only now Mary wears a skirt :p.
 

Yojimbo

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I mean, when I think of Mary Marvel and Supergirl I don't naturally think "Female Furies loyal to Darkseid and with a chip on their shoulder against other heroes."

It feels like a lot of how they've written/established Mary was to make her Black Mary storyline make more sense than it did in the comics with the negative benefit of it not feeling like a proper adaption of her at all.

It's just kind of funny to me that they'd take the most innocent and idealistic of female heroes and posit their debut as basically villains. Only now Mary wears a skirt :p.
Yeah, I mean... who knows who else will be added onto the Furies during the next hypothetical time skip... Raven? Starfire? Bombshell?

Well, maybe. She might have had a prior outfit when she was on the Team in Year Five.

If we get another comic after Targets, I'd hope it's Shazam Family focused and also reuses ideas for the comic arc that never got made and delve into Mary to fill in the gaps. Bummer she and Freddy weren't on the Team during the Legacy game. Guess it was Happy New Year, you're off the Team.
 

Frontier

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Yeah, I mean... who knows who else will be added onto the Furies during the next hypothetical time skip... Raven? Starfire? Bombshell?
And we still haven't seen a lot of the named Furies from the comics...
Well, maybe. She might have had a prior outfit when she was on the Team in Year Five.
It's weird that I didn't like her hero look and prefer her villain design. Almost feels like they put more effort into the latter :rolleyes2:.
If we get another comic after Targets, I'd hope it's Shazam Family focused and also reuses ideas for the comic arc that never got made and delve into Mary to fill in the gaps. Bummer she and Freddy weren't on the Team during the Legacy game. Guess it was Happy New Year, you're off the Team.
Probably be too OP for Legacy :ack:.
 

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Well, maybe. She might have had a prior outfit when she was on the Team in Year Five.
Nah, we've only seen Captain Marvel with one costume, so I think Sergeant Marvel always had her white and gold outfit. Personally, I think it looks awesome and I don't agree with Frontier at all. (Sorry, F!) Greg Weisman revealed ages ago that Lt. and Sgt. would wear pants, so I had a long time to get used to that idea. (But then, I'm also one of the people who quickly accepted that there would be time-skips after every season and that the cast would expand with each season... Not everyone has been so forgiving of YJ's tendencies to do these things.) I also find it easy to imagine Captain and Sergeant standing side-by-side and I think they would look great in a team-up capacity. Maybe the fact that we haven't seen Sergeant alongside any other heroes in the show itself is part of the reason that there's been a bit of backlash against her design? Because sure, obviously she would look a bit peculiar next to teen Billy and 20 year-old Mary, as she's in full costume and they aren't... I just find it easy to give that design a lot of slack and I genuinely think it's cool and appreciate it. Also, the lack of a skirt is really not a big deal at all...

But anyway, it's possible that Mary herself had a different outfit when she was on the Team. Maybe Mary and Freddy spent more time learning Covert-Ops skills and working as undercover operatives for the Team than they did in actual full-blown superhero mode, since there is nothing covert about Lt. and Sgt.? In which case, perhaps they dressed similarly to someone like Thirteen or even Superboy. I could see them being told to only use their Marvel forms when they were in dire straights. Which might have contributed to Mary's frustration and her desire to be Sergeant all the time, if she felt that that would solve everyone's problems.
 

Yojimbo

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It's weird that I didn't like her hero look and prefer her villain design. Almost feels like they put more effort into the latter :rolleyes2:.

Probably be too OP for Legacy :ack:.
Idk, Mary's forehead looked off model in that last shot.

lol, well when you get Zatanna and Rocket as playable characters, they are super OP.
 

Frontier

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Nah, we've only seen Captain Marvel with one costume, so I think Sergeant Marvel always had her white and gold outfit. Personally, I think it looks awesome and I don't agree with Frontier at all. (Sorry, F!) Greg Weisman revealed ages ago that Lt. and Sgt. would wear pants, so I had a long time to get used to that idea. (But then, I'm also one of the people who quickly accepted that there would be time-skips after every season and that the cast would expand with each season... Not everyone has been so forgiving of YJ's tendencies to do these things.) I also find it easy to imagine Captain and Sergeant standing side-by-side and I think they would look great in a team-up capacity. Maybe the fact that we haven't seen Sergeant alongside any other heroes in the show itself is part of the reason that there's been a bit of backlash against her design? Because sure, obviously she would look a bit peculiar next to teen Billy and 20 year-old Mary, as she's in full costume and they aren't... I just find it easy to give that design a lot of slack and I genuinely think it's cool and appreciate it. Also, the lack of a skirt is really not a big deal at all...

But anyway, it's possible that Mary herself had a different outfit when she was on the Team. Maybe Mary and Freddy spent more time learning Covert-Ops skills and working as undercover operatives for the Team than they did in actual full-blown superhero mode, since there is nothing covert about Lt. and Sgt.? In which case, perhaps they dressed similarly to someone like Thirteen or even Superboy. I could see them being told to only use their Marvel forms when they were in dire straights. Which might have contributed to Mary's frustration and her desire to be Sergeant all the time, if she felt that that would solve everyone's problems.
I guess it's complimentary in the sense that it looks more like her brothers' suit than the traditional Mary Marvel costume (I mean, besides the color scheme) which was part of my problem with it.

Honestly felt like they took a bit of the fun out of Mary Marvel.
lol, well when you get Zatanna and Rocket as playable characters, they are super OP.
Or M'Gann. Granted a lot of characters are as OP as the plot needs them to be :p.
 

SweetShop209

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So there's this tweet Greg Weisman put out. He said that he hasn't been asked to come for any convention appearances, and to draw your own conclusions. I'd say it's a sign of there being no season 5, but wasn't it said somewhere else that the viewership was even higher this season?

 

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So there's this tweet Greg Weisman put out. He said that he hasn't been asked to come for any convention appearances, and to draw your own conclusions. I'd say it's a sign of there being no season 5, but wasn't it said somewhere else that the viewership was even higher this season?

Makes that's cliffhanger even MORE infuriating. We did not freaking NEED that.
 

Frontier

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So there's this tweet Greg Weisman put out. He said that he hasn't been asked to come for any convention appearances, and to draw your own conclusions. I'd say it's a sign of there being no season 5, but wasn't it said somewhere else that the viewership was even higher this season?

Well, that's kind of foreboding :sweat:.
Makes that's cliffhanger even MORE infuriating. We did not freaking NEED that.
The Greg Weisman special :p.
 

M.O.D.O.K.

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It's not a great sign and I do have my doubts on the show getting picked up. At the same time, I wouldn't automatically assume it means the show's done either. As a result of cost-cutting, DC/WB will have limited space at this year's SDCC, and they seem to only be focusing on projects that are coming out on the next few months (and leaving out the CW DC shows entirely). Even if YJ was getting a new season, it wouldn't be getting a panel since there would be nothing to show.

I would wait to see if there is another Fandome this year. That seems like a space more specialized for DC news. Plus we still got the rest of the Targets comic coming out in the next few months, so we're getting SOME content.
 

colomb

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This is worrying at a glance, but it doesn't look like DC will have that big of a presence at SDCC, projects that are further down the line won't be there at all.

They haven't even announced anything for the upcoming animated Batman, Superman, and Legion cartoons.
 

ShadowStar

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Makes that's cliffhanger even MORE infuriating. We did not freaking NEED that.
No-one was in immediate danger so it wasn't a cliffhanger. Obviously we don't know whether Kara and/or Mary will be saved from Darkseid, but one can easily just say that yes, they will probably be turned to the side of good at some point. Or maybe they won't. In any case, that little post-credits scene certainly made for a dramatic tease, but it wasn't a cliffhanger.

In any case, while I'm not fond of the Black Mary twist, I like the fact that Mary Bromfield/Sergeant Marvel may have more screen time if there is a fifth season. And I see nothing wrong with the Supergirl twist -- Earth-16 is a parallel universe, so I'm fine with her debuting as a villain.
 

Yojimbo

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So there's this tweet Greg Weisman put out. He said that he hasn't been asked to come for any convention appearances, and to draw your own conclusions. I'd say it's a sign of there being no season 5, but wasn't it said somewhere else that the viewership was even higher this season?
Don't put any stock in that. It takes the company a long time to decide on renewing DC animated streaming series. We all know this. YJ had the benefit of being renewed for a season 4 on July 29, 2019, a month before Outsiders' finale on August 27, 2019 because it was still DCU while in contrast Harley Quinn had a delay due to the shift from DC Universe to HBO Max during its run. Harley's season 2 finale aired June 26, 2020 and the renewal wasn't until September 16, 2020. In ideal conditions, they likely won't make a decision on renewing or not until the fall. But we currently have the ongoing post-merger of Warner and Discovery which could further delay the process. So we may not know YJ's fate until September-November this year. The best thing fans can do is keep on tweeting, keep streaming on HBO Max, and buy the comic.

This is worrying at a glance, but it doesn't look like DC will have that big of a presence at SDCC, projects that are further down the line won't be there at all.

They haven't even announced anything for the upcoming animated Batman, Superman, and Legion cartoons.
Too early in the pipeline to present anything. 3 weeks since the YJ season finale, the company doesn't see the need to hold a panel for show whose season wrapped up. It's just logistics.
 
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colomb

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Too early in the pipeline to present anything. 3 weeks since the YJ season finale, the company doesn't see the need to hold a panel for show whose season wrapped up. It's just logistics.
A mid-October Fandome (if Discovery continues it) would be the more appropriate time, if not sooner.

It would be great if they order two seasons so we get S5 in 2024-2025 and S6 in 2026.
 

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