C&C - Naruto Shippuden - "The Burden" [8/11]

[A.Magik]

Well,,,here comes this part of the story. Where one person's actions will be forever defined by the viewership (to paraphrase one poster on this site, spectacular for some, and problematic for others).

The Official Naruto Shippuden Talkback Thread

OPENING: "Lovers" by 7!!
CLOSING: "FREEDOM" By HOME MADE Kazoku
​

Last Time on NARUTO SHIPPUDEN

Spoiler

Naruto wakes up and goes behind Yamato's back to go after Sakura.

For anyone who thinks it wise to reveal any post-Chapter 482/Episode 213 spoilers, talk it with Sasuke first...

 

[Master Knight DH]

Previously on Naruto Shippuden, Naruto flashed back a lot hoping to again believe it, unfortunately leaving US unable to believe it.

(Seriously, ENOUGH FILLER.)

 

[Kitschensyngk]

Careful, Sakura. Anything you say from this point out might be construed as treason.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Yeah, Sasuke simply can't believe it. What. So. Eh. Ver.

 

[Kitschensyngk]

I have been waiting for you, Kakashi. We meet again at last.

The circle is now complete. When I met you, I was but the genin. Now I am the sensei.

 

[Master Knight DH]

So Sasuke thinks people want their happiness at any cost and doesn't care to do a better job calling it out.

I didn't know he could be any less able to believe it, because that would require he'd believe it a negative amount, and yet here we are. I don't believe it.

 

[Master Knight DH]

More. Flashbacks. Now I believe it as much as Sasuke currently believes it. Actually, since I can't even believe it with the latter, I believe it even less.

 

[Hypeathon]

So here's something a little different. Right around the time this arc was first premiering in Japan via the anime, a youtuber named Smyton4tw did an interesting fan animation of his own approach to Sasuke vs Kakashi. As cool as it was as a fan project, it felt a bit silly and over-the-top in hindsight if one were to seriously acknowledge it in the grand scheme of the show's story. But that said, here it is:

 

[PapaGreg]

God Kishi is AWFUL at writing female characters

 

[A.Magik]

Sakura is probably imagining her Kunai as something from Sasuke; something equally long, hard, pointy, full of nasty liquid...

Kakashi didn't exhaust himself just so you can get laid, Sakura!

 

[Master Knight DH]

God Kishi is AWFUL at writing female characters

Isn't that a common problem with Japan? Doesn't happen with all works of course, but I don't think Naruto is the only guilty work.

Of course, yeah, Sakura involves some writing problems. Then again (VIDEO CONTAINS SPOILERS):

 

[A.Magik]

Episode 214: The Burden
Broadcast Date: june 2, 2011
Based on Naruto Chapters#483-484

It’s the First!
Sakura’s plea to join Sasuke is a sham so she can be close enough to kill him. She learns his plan to destroy Konoha, and is troubled by his new dark side.

This is the first time Kakashi and Sasuke have met since the talk before the Sound Quartet tempted Sasuke.

Sasuke’s Susanno’o gains a grotesque armor.

The plot point of Sasuke’s weakening vision reaches its climax, as his overuse causes his eyesight to fail, as well as his Susanno’o.

Sakura’s plan to stab Sasuke fails (See Love, Family, and Friendships)

The Plot Thickens…
Kakashi comments about Tsunade teaching Sakura how to make sleeping powder, as evident by the unconscious Kiba, Akimaru, Lee, and Sai.

Sasuke doesn’t buy Sakura’s plea for joining him. He tries to kill Sakura twice: Kakashi saves her the first time. Naruto saves her the second.

Kakashi intends to relieve Sakura of the burden of her plan; he feels the burden is his responsibility for failing to keep the team together.

Sasuke considers Kakashi’s Sharingan as an insult to his clan. He learns Kakashi possesses Mangekyo.

Saskue’s madness continues; he laughs at Kakashi’s pleas, excited about killing him, envisions the Konoha 11 as laughing at his clan’s destruction, and for that the village is worthy of death.

Karin gets healed and becomes Konoha's prisoner for her knowledge about the Akatsuki.

Naruto saves Sakura but gets slashed by the poisoned kunai.

Love, Family, and Friendships.
Sasuke sees Karin as useless and replaceable.

Karin discovers Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke.

Karin has mixed feelings about Sasuke.

Kakashi likens his relationship with Sasuke to Hiruzen’s relationship with Orochimaru.

It is Love that keeps Sakura from stabbing Sasuke.

This is not your Arc, Sakura
Sakura…

Remember When (or Not)
Sakura remembers Kakashi’s promise that Naruto and Sasuke will see better days (after the near chidori-rasengan clash at the hospital).

The flashback of Kakashi attempting to reason with Sasuke about his vengeance- the last time they saw each other before this recent meeting- is portrayed.

While Kakashi talks about Hiruzen and Orochimaru, the Anime shows scenes of Team Hiruzen, Hiruzen letting Orochimaru escape, and their final battle at the Crush.

Sasuke thinks of the Konoha 11 in their Part 1 incarnations.

Sakura thinks about her talk with the Konoha peers about Sasuke. She tells them it will be her job to tell Naruto their plans, when actually she intends not to do it, wanting to deal with Sasuke herself.

Sakura’s first appearance, telling Naruto to move it so she can sit next to Sasuke, is portrayed.

Also portrayed is Team 7’s final test, when Kakashi forbids Sakura and Sasuke to feed Naruto; they disobey, and Kakashi’s return to pass them.

Sakura’s memory of her Part 1 parting, with Sasuke’s thanks, is the factor that stops her from stabbing Sasuke.

But in the Manga…
The Anime adds Kakashi attempting to restrain Sasuke with his wire-Kunai, but only catches a log.

The Anime adds Sasuke repeating his forbearance of Kakashi acting like his sensei.

The Anime adds Sasuke conjuring Shuriken that are blocked by Kakashi’s Mud wall.

Sasuke’s goodbye to Sakura and Kakashi’s Lie are the only canonical flashbacks portrayed in the manga version.

In the Anime version of Sakura’s talk with the Konoha gang, Lee and Kiba question Sakura.

When Naruto rescues Sakura from being stabbed, the Anime adds a line of his slashed blood in mid-air.

 

[Kitschensyngk]

God Kishi is AWFUL at writing female characters

Honestly, from the standpoint of showing a female-like disposition, she hasn’t been much of a heroine. You could even say that Hinata’s more of a heroine than her. But since, as we know, Sakura is a heroine deep inside, she’ll show that side of hers from now on.
—Masashi Kishomoto

Kobayashi then asks about Sakura. Kishimoto says he tried to write her more realistically [than other characters], and tried to show a girl’s "real" self/feelings [through inner Sakura]. He thought she would appeal to female fans, but was surprised when she actually became hated. Kobayashi asks if there was a lot of Sakura hate, and Kishimoto says there was, and even young girls told him they hate her. Kishimoto said that he continued on regretting Sakura’s character. Kobayashi apologizes for bringing up the painful memories as Kishimoto apologizes for tailing off (lol).
—transcript from an interview with Kishimoto

Why are people making a racket and asking if Hinata is going to be the heroine in this movie? Maybe because until now there hasn't been a heroine. [...] Sakura isn't the heroine! That's what I've been saying since a long time ago. I've been hearing the man himself [Kishimoto] say that Naruto doesn't have a heroine from before 2010.
—deleted tweet from Kishimoto's assistant in regards to Naruto The Last: The Movie, via TVTropes​

 

[Master Knight DH]

Sakura is probably imagining her Kunai as something from Sasuke; something equally long, hard, pointy, full of nasty liquid...

Kakashi didn't exhaust himself just so you can get laid, Sakura!

You know what? This whole mess warrants a length post. Particularly in light of how we are reminded by the damned flashbacks how 12YO Sakura Haruno would fangirl the crud out of Sasuke Uchiha. That whole mess reeks of All Girls Want Bad Boys. Even ignoring how that becomes hypocritical when Naruto Uzumaki exists to be a prankster and a Dirty Young Man yet he ends up growing into a fine young man, the whole AGWBB trope really, REALLY, REALLY gets on my nerves.

First off, why don't we look at the causes of Hybristophilia, and see why they are dumb:
* "Some believe they can change a man as cruel and powerful as a serial killer." - hubris, pure and simple
* "Others 'see' the little boy that the killer once was and seek to nurture him." - now I could try to buy the idealism angle. The problem is when even if that same little boy existed, that killer better be showing PRESENT redeeming factors, not PAST ones.
* "A few hoped to share in the media spotlight or get a book or movie deal." - shallow as hell. I don't even need to go into detail on why.
* "Then there's the notion of the 'perfect boyfriend'. She knows where he is at all times and she knows he's thinking about her. While she can claim that someone loves her, she does not have to endure the day-to-day issues involved in most relationships. There’s no laundry to do, no cooking for him, and no accountability to him. She can keep the fantasy charged up for a long time." - now this is what really bugs me; even though it's not outright bull**** like the first OR third motives are, what is is the resulting implications. If the bad boy is just that, wouldn't it be needed to look after him? That's assuming that could even work. Also, what about the notion of teamwork? Why should females be afraid of pulling their own weight? I know if I were married I'd definitely help my wife with cooking and cleaning, even if she and I would have to figure out what aspects of each one of those would work best for both of us. Really, what ever happened to the concept of Earn Your Happy Ending?

Since I can safely not talk about the fanaticism cause because it speaks for itself, I'll just talk about the AGWBB aspect, because good God is it aggravating. It might be fine if it wasn't so filled with double standards it crosses into disturbing levels of hypocrisy. In the midst of the whole mess, the guys who girls are happy to push aside are the ones more willing to listen and play fair. Oh, but wait, "nice guy" is quote marked for a reason, the same reason for the term "white knighting." Even though the fangirls give their own bodies to the scumbags precisely because the scumbags are..scum...baaags...? ....uh...excuse me? Doesn't that imply that they'd be believing that EVERY man wants to use and toss aside women. I'm sorry, what?

If this is because All Women Are Lustful, I might be able to buy that, but they better have a good reason for it. Really, what about the fuss they make over things like pregnancy, rightfully so, sure, but why are the fangirls arbitrary about who they care about it with? Oh God do I want to delve into ending spoilers now but even hints on what they're really like are questionable without tagging. (SIGH) ...actually, why don't I say something. (WARNING: MAJOR SPOILER FOR THE SHOW'S ENDING. THIS IS A LATE ARRIVAL SPOILER FOR BORUTO, OF COURSE.)

Spoiler

Yeah, like anybody failed to see the given ships coming. But anyway, Sakura basically lives as a borderline single mother due to Sasuke's availability issues, HAHA! Oh, and Sakura, did you know Hinata Hyuuga is living a happy life with a happy family from a happy marriage with the 7th Fire Shadow? Incidentally, wasn't Hinata a lot nicer to Naruto from the start than you were? Yeah, PWNED, SUKURA!

....I'm sorry, but fangirling doesn't even bring out the best in females. They don't try to be there from the start. Why expect them to be there through thick and thin? What is this garbage about needing to be the "best" to be anything but nothing, even when being the "best" is arbitrarily defined, never mind that the rat race is anything but empathetic to begin with? You know: empathy. The concept females are supposed to be better with in general? That Hinata Hyuuga girl seemed to show the right idea: that being perfect isn't a necessity--what is is being a good enough person. Chapter 98 of the manga makes as much clear, and remember by the way that that takes place after Naruto's claim to have known all along the truth about the 10th question in the Chuunin Exam's written portion. Why don't many girls out there want to understand that sort of thing?

Now, since people may think I'm just "salty"--God, is that a stupid term--I will admit, due to my interest in Savvy Guy Energetic Girl, that I can have pragmatism going on, because a Genki Girl would be more likely to actually enjoy love making, although that would hardly be a guarantee. May I also admit, as well, that I'd be wanting to REALLY let loose during the love making so that's its own point, and believe me, that's not hyperbole. If she would like it rough, sure, but I'd rather a partner at least be sure they wouldn't get more than they bargained for, or maybe they would like THAT, but I don't know.

Of course, it's not like the Genki Girl isn't appealing in other ways. There's the charm she shows, especially when moving between options or being obviously guilty with minor stuff. There's the point that she works well at being on the Performer side of the Technician VS Performer trope, which, especially considering how game balance is my forte, would compliment me being on the Technician side despite valid reasons for my hate level toward characters like Roger Retinz, or RL Stop Having Fun Guys like GipFace being legendary. There's still general Hidden Depths where she can show surprising sagacity. And of course, there's that positive, brave, inspiring mentality that would be worth looking after.

Obviously I'm off the topic of Hinata Hyuuga there because she is a shy girl. However, my point ultimately is that females are more appealing when they prove that being nice doesn't make them Too Dumb To Live. It's just that I want females to be awesome so that their happiness can be sustainable from being more cognizant. Unfortunately, those fangirls who I complained about, who care only about money, muscles, genital size, etc., are *RAMPANT*. I imagine that that sort of thing is why Sakura is written the way she is: because there aren't enough females who consider the concepts of bravery, creativity, and patience.

You guys see why I don't believe it?