Different Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum.

[brodie999]

I've been wondering how different Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum would be if Mark Miller wrote them instead of Loeb. And a lot of people said they would be much better than they were under Loeb because Miller knew these characters while Loeb didn't.

If Miller's version of Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum happened, things would have been a lot different. We wouldn't have saw all those crazy things Loeb wrote like Thor talking in a Shakespearean accent. Maybe lesser heroes would have died in Ultimatum.
https://www.quora.com/If-Mark-Mille...mates-3-and-Ultimatum-what-would-they-be-like

 

[Dreyfus]

I'm not the biggest fan of Millar, but did like The Ultimates. I can't imagine why Marvel would give Loeb the reins if Millar wanted to do it. And I know people really didn't like what he ended up doing. Will have to get around to reading it myself to see why.

 

[brodie999]

I'm not the biggest fan of Millar, but did like The Ultimates. I can't imagine why Marvel would give Loeb the reins if Millar wanted to do it. And I know people really didn't like what he ended up doing. Will have to get around to reading it myself to see why.

Okay, and then you can tell me about your option on Millar's version of Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum once you're done reading the comics.

 

[Dreyfus]

What was Mark Millar's plan going to be? All I remember is Ultimates 2 was a bit forgettable.

 

[brodie999]

What was Mark Millar's plan going to be? All I remember is Ultimates 2 was a bit forgettable.

Well, he didn't quite say what his plans for Ultimates 3 were, but he did said "War Heroes" is what his Ultimates 3 could have been if he and Hitch stayed on to write it and Ultimatum. Maybe we should ask him on Twitter. He'd probably know. Part of the story would probably be about Hawkeye leaving the Ultimates after failing to move from his family's deaths and forming the Ultimate Thunderbolts.

 

[Dreyfus]

Well what did you think of Ultimates 2? I know I liked the first Ultimates way better. Also, since I've always intended to get into the Ultimate universe, what else needs to be read leading up to Ultimatum? Do I have to read Ultimate X-Men? I've only gotten maybe halfway through Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

[brodie999]

Well what did you think of Ultimates 2? I know I liked the first Ultimates way better. Also, since I've always intended to get into the Ultimate universe, what else needs to be read leading up to Ultimatum? Do I have to read Ultimate X-Men? I've only gotten maybe halfway through Ultimate Spider-Man.

I think it was better than Ultimates 1 and I loved the fact how Loki's appearance was actually what started the trend of him being a young, handsome man instead of being sickly, older and craven just like in the mainstream universe. And I think you should read through Ultimate X-Men #94-97, Ultimate Human #1-4 and this novel called March on Ultimatum Saga #1.

 

[Dreyfus]

Alright, will do. P.S. Did you read the Jonathan Hickman stuff later on? If so, how was it? Everyone says he's a great writer.

 

[brodie999]

Alright, will do. P.S. Did you read the Jonathan Hickman stuff later on? If so, how was it? Everyone says he's a great writer.

Yeah, I've read it. All the arcs for Ultimate Marvel he wrote were amazing. He did a really good bang-up job of explaining Hawkeye and Thor's back stories in the Ultimate Universe. The debut of Ultimate Mandarin as an organisation rather than a lone villain was a pretty good change from the 616 comics in Ultimate Comics: Iron Man.

 

[Dreyfus]

I loved the fact how Loki's appearance was actually what started the trend of him being a young, handsome man instead of being sickly, older and craven just like in the mainstream universe.

That's one thing I think Millar is great at, he's a great ideas writer. He's really good at coming up with fresh takes on characters and story arcs. That's probably why he fit so well in the Ultimate universe.

 

[brodie999]

That's one thing I think Millar is great at, he''s a great ideas writer. He''s really god at coming up with fresh takes on characters and story arcs. That''s probably why he fit so well in the Ultimate universe.

Yeah, and if the Beyonder was introduced into the Ultimate universe in Ultimatum. He'd probably be based on actor Kevin Bacon and the Ultimate Guardians of the Galaxy would probably be similar to the MCU Guardians and be a thinly veiled analogy of the UK/US. This is the one story Millar can seem to tell about them.

 

[Dreyfus]

Well I'm not that critical of Millar's writing. I just think it's a little bit superficial, like there's not enough nuance to his work. I like his stories though, they're fun and action-packed, and I can appreciate them for what they are. Old Man Logan for example is another one of his I liked, another interesting idea and take on the character. What's this about Kevin Bacon though? Am I missing something?

 

[brodie999]

Well I'm not that critical of Millar's writing. I just think it's a little bit superficial, like there's not enough nuance to his work. I like his stories though, they're fun and action-packed, and I can appreciate them for what they are. Old Man Logan for example is another one of his I liked, another interesting idea and take on the character. What's this about Kevin Bacon though? Am I missing something?

What I mean is if the Beyonder ever arrived in the Ultimate Universe, he'd be more handsome in person and be based on Bacon's likeness as opposed to the bearded, thuggish look he has in the comics these days.

 

[Dreyfus]

OK, makes sense. Yeah, he does tend to model characters on actors. But then that's probably one of the reasons he gets so many of his comics adapted to film.

 

[brodie999]

OK, makes sense. Yeah, he does tend to model characters on actors. But then that's probably one of the reasons he gets so many of his comics adapted to film.

And that's why many of them are critically acclaimed. Any comic he does is like reading a Christopher Nolan book based on actors in a movie. That's why he and Bendis made the Ultimate Marvel universe darker than the original universe.

 

[Dreyfus]

I don't know if he's much like Christopher Nolan. I'd say he's closer to Michael Bay. Good at action, he does the big blockbusters that make the most money. But he and Bendis I'd say suffer from a similar problem in their writing, film envy. Both of them want to make their comics more and more like movies that they sometimes forget what makes the medium of comics unique. Where Nolan takes advantage of the film medium the way people like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison take advantage of the comic book medium, Bendis and Millar try to emulate another medium, film, when they could be doing something wholly unique in their own world of comics.

 

[brodie999]

I don't know if he's much like Christopher Nolan. I'd say he's closer to Michael Bay. Good at action, he does the big blockbusters that make the most money. But he and Bendis I'd say suffer from a similar problem in their writing, film envy. Both of them want to make their comics more and more like movies that they sometimes forget what makes the medium of comics unique. Where Nolan takes advantage of the film medium the way people like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison take advantage of the comic book medium, Bendis and Milla try to emulate another medium, film, when they could be doing something wholly unique in their own world of comics.

Agreed. The only difference between them and Bay is they make great comics that are filed with pop-culture references and the heroes thanklessly defend their freedom while they're complaining about petty things like Nolan's Batman trilogy while most of Bay's movies are negatively received. That's why the MCU would have more of a Christopher Nolan or Patty Jenkins tone in general if Marvel decided to base it more on the Ultimate Universe.

 

[Dreyfus]

Michael Bay could be a great director with the right material. Pain and Gain was really good.

 

[brodie999]

Michael Bay could be a great director with the right material. Pain and Gain was really good.

Yeah, he, Jenkins and Nolan are always welcome to direct MCU movies, but Jenkins was originally going to direct The Dark World and it would have been a lot different as it would have more of a "Romeo and Juliet" feel to it. But Nolan directing a MCU Wolverine movie would be epic!!

 

[Dreyfus]

Oh yeah, she did say that about The Dark World. What were they thinking saying no to her? That kind of unique take on the material is exactly what Marvel and Feige are always saying they want from their directors, and pretty much what got Waititi the job on Thor 3. That would have been awesome. Her and Edgar Wright were two of Marvel's biggest slip-ups.