Young Justice "Disordered" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Azrayel]

I don't know anything about White Martian's but from this episode and last weeks I feel as if White Martian's are the equivalent to Jean's Pheonix power. If it is like that, where Miss Martian cannot control her powers I could see her sacrificing herself for the team to protect them from danger.

Superboy's side story was boring and I wasn't a fan of the New Genesis team. I hope I do not see them again. Though Sphere's powers were pretty cool.

The thearpy session was intresting, and I liked Robin's the most due to it sounding like his own man (Nightwing) instead of being like Batman.

 

[quigonkenny]

Let me clearly restate what I said so another person doesn't accuse me of saying things I never said. Kid flash's singular focused attraction to artamis goes against his character trait of being a flirt. That is not bad or uncommon mind you it is just a character change!

Except, as AlgeaX just suggested, Wally isn't really a flirt. He's not a very serious person, certainly, but from what we've seen, he's very loyal. Since initially fixating on M'gann, we've seen him effectively ignore (from a flirty perspective) every one of his female peers (well, just Artemis and Zatanna, but that's all we've seen of female peers). The only exceptions have been Black Canary (who is both ludicrously out of his league and very much taken, both facts that he is well aware of), and Artemis during the "Bereft" memory loss. And in the second case, he again proved his "loyalty" by directing his flirting toward Artemis even in the presence of forgotten target M'gann. And we've seen his flirting toward M'gann diminish mightily since it started looking like he is aware of his attraction toward Artemis. Wally flirts, certainly, but to label him "a flirt" and any behavior contrary to that as OOC does a disservice to the complexity of these characters.

...I can give you a bunch of examples of shows that come up with their own takes on it instead of using old formula (scrubs when Dr. cox and Jordan are in love and hate each other anyway or how about beast wars who went with the bad girl falling for the good boy)...

Seriously? Neither of those is particularly original. Your Scrubs reference is arguably the same as our Artemis/Wally situation, and has happened about a million times before. And as for the Beast Machines reference, good boy turning bad girl only happens...oh, about once a Bond movie. And that's just to take the obvious example. It's particularly egregious in the comic book world. The Batman/Catwoman relationship epitomizes it, but just about every male superhero can elicit at least one example.

 

[Geodude]

I also wonder why Artemis doesn't want to tell the team the truth about her not being Green Arrow's niece. She probably feels more comfortable with hiding her past, especially given who her sister is, but I wonder if there's something more to it than that.

Excerpts from Artemis' narrative thoughts from issue #8 of the comic:

"Kids...my age...took down a killer robot with the powers of the Justice League!"..."They're a team. And I want on! I so want on!"

"Who was I kidding? If I tried to join, they'd want to know who I am...probably demand my whole family history...and once they knew that, there's no way they'd trust me...no way they'd ever let me be one of them. I can play dress-up all I want...but no one's ever gonna buy me as one of the good guys. I'm Artemis, not Alice. There are no Wonderlands for someone like me."

It's worth a read for anyone who hasn't read it yet, since it actually shows Artemis being recruited to the team. Though it's the second half of a two-part story, so I'd start with #7.

 

[Revelator]

Having Superboy pal around with the Forever People was likely a homage to Jack Kirby's original Fourth World comics, wherein Superman was the first DC hero to encounter Kirby's creations. Kirby's nuttiness is always refreshing in a show that sometimes takes itself a little too seriously, and the Fourth People were a nice change of pace from the Young Justice crew and all their contrived and schematic psychological hang-ups.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

And as for the Beast Machines reference, good boy turning bad girl only happens...oh, about once a Bond movie. And that's just to take the obvious example. It's particularly egregious in the comic book world. The Batman/Catwoman relationship epitomizes it, but just about every male superhero can elicit at least one example.

DCAU staff has been insisting for quite some time that Batman is a "bad boy." I guess relative to Catwoman he's good, but in the context of heroes in the animated world they insist he's not.

 

[GL Zeeguy]

I don't know anything about White Martian's but from this episode and last weeks I feel as if White Martian's are the equivalent to Jean's Pheonix power. If it is like that, where Miss Martian cannot control her powers I could see her sacrificing herself for the team to protect them from danger.

Superboy's side story was boring and I wasn't a fan of the New Genesis team. I hope I do not see them again. Though Sphere's powers were pretty cool.

The thearpy session was intresting, and I liked Robin's the most due to it sounding like his own man (Nightwing) instead of being like Batman.

Actually, no. The White Martians aren't like the Phoenix Effect. The White Martians are simply a different "breed" of Martians, distinct from the Green Martians, which is what J'onn is. Watch the episode "Targets", that's where M'gann lets us know a little about the White Martians, and she lets us know that the are in fact a minority on Mars, but as such they are disenfranchised. Think of the Green Martian/White Martian dichotomy as you would White-Minority relationships in the United States from the Civil War till the Civil Rights Era (or even till now). Anyway, even if M'gann is a White Martian in this continuity, it has nothing to do with her powers, its just simply her "race".

Also, I disagree with you on the New Genesis story, which btw wasn't the side story, the therapy sessions were the side story. But, anyway, the appearance of the Forever People, whether we like them or not, could mean the coming appearance of the rest of New Genesis (Highfather, Orion, Mister Miracle, and the other New Gods) not to mention the likely coming of Apokolips characters. We've already seen Desaad, so Granny Goodness, Kalibak, and Darkseid (one of the best, most bad-ass villains in the DCU and all of comics in general) can't be far behind.

 

[reflection01]

Actually, no. The White Martians aren't like the Phoenix Effect. The White Martians are simply a different "breed" of Martians, distinct from the Green Martians, which is what J'onn is. Watch the episode "Targets", that's where M'gann lets us know a little about the White Martians, and she lets us know that the are in fact a minority on Mars, but as such they are disenfranchised. Think of the Green Martian/White Martian dichotomy as you would White-Minority relationships in the United States from the Civil War till the Civil Rights Era (or even till now). Anyway, even if M'gann is a White Martian in this continuity, it has nothing to do with her powers, its just simply her "race".

Which makes it more interesting that J'onn chose to portray himself as a black human and M'gann chose to portray herself as a white human.

 

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

Great episode. Though, I find it odd nobody pointed out Superboy's character development at the end of the episode where he admitted that he had bonded with Sphere. Another thing, my point of view on the Wally/Artemis burgeoning romance is that it's going to go in one of two directions that we've seen in the past: either Beast Boy/Terra or GL/Hawkgirl. I say this because I'm pretty certain that Artemis is the mole.

 

[Gold Starz]

Great episode. Though, I find it odd nobody pointed out Superboy's character development at the end of the episode where he admitted that he had bonded with Sphere. Another thing, my point of view on the Wally/Artemis burgeoning romance is that it's going to go in one of two directions that we've seen in the past: either Beast Boy/Terra or GL/Hawkgirl. I say this because I'm pretty certain that Artemis is the mole.

Except, in the comics (which are canon), she's pretty much cleared herself of any suspicion. So Artemis is almost definitely NOT the traitor.

 

[reflection01]

The idea had crossed my mind it could be New Genesis who the Light was working with to prepare Earth against an invasion by Darkseid.

Why would Highfather disguise his involvement? The theme of the show is secrets and lies. Maybe Apokolips and New Genesis have a temporary truce and even though Darkseid has his sights set on Earth, Highfather won't directly act against him.



Keep in mind, we don't know that Intergang has anything to do with the Light at all, so it doesn't indicate anything concrete about the Light's partner yet.

Either way, this could be something Desaad is doing on the side. Notice how he corrects himself when he says that Infinity-Man is now his weapon.

I could be Apokolips and New Genesis both partnering up on Earth. Apokolips is preparing for an invasion by partnering with organized crime. New Genesis could be partnering with the Light to stop an invasion. In fact, all of The Light's efforts could be preparing to stop an Apokolips invasion. Building an army of super soldiers, brokering peace between waring nations, studying other extraterrestrials, acquiring magical artifacts, etc.

And the training exercise suggests the Justice League is preparing for the same invasion. Maybe they're working with New Genesis or maybe they have intelligence from the GL Corps or whatever.

 

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

Except, in the comics (which are canon), she's pretty much cleared herself of any suspicion. So Artemis is almost definitely NOT the traitor.

I've not read the comics so I didn't know. Out of curiosity, how did she clear herself of suspicion.

 

[suss2it]

I've not read the comics so I didn't know. Out of curiosity, how did she clear herself of suspicion.

Because we see the circumstances as to how she joined the Team and we get inside her head and see her motivations for being a hero.

 

[GWOtaku]

My views on "Disordered" for the Toonzone blog...now to finally read through this thread!

https://www.toonzone.net/blog/blogs/504/young-justice---disordered-recap/

I found it very fun and consequential. There's the possible tie to the future "Invasion" season of course, but through it we also see that "Failsafe" will have a lasting impact...I was all too right when I said last time that to the team, what happened in that episode might as well have been real.

Gotta say that this was the episode that made me care about the stuff going on with Artemis and Wally too. The reasons why are in the recap, so I won't repeat myself there. I'm hoping next week will explore that matter a bit more since it's mostly about Artemis and Zatanna.

 

[suss2it]

While Aqualad was going down that list of his team mates, I almost thought he would have mentioned Red Arrow since those two are close in age and closer (like how Robin and Kid Flash are).

I get why Roy wasn't mentioned. He's not actually a part of the Team, and Black Canary and Kaldur both know that he's trying the whole solo thing right now.

Hmm. Could be! I figured it was just Superboy saying he finally knew what it was like to be "The Last Son of Krypton."

But he liked it. As he said he felt at peace. I think it's understandable though since the sole reason Superboy exists is so that he can eventually replace Superman, and when he was in the Cadmus pod he was implanted with memories of killing Superman and being regarded as a hero for doing so.

Much appreciated! Thanks, suss2it. Minor nitpick, but I thought they spelled Ugly's last name with two n's like "Mannheim" not "Manheim" like in the credits.

S:TAS spelt it with two "n"s and Wikipedia has two "n"s as well, so I'm guessing the production team just messed up here.



At least it's not as bad as putting in the wrong time stamp in an episode or putting an incorrect bio for a character into the background of a scene.

 

[spyke]

I want a FOREVER PEOPLE animated series. Nuff said.

 

[Yojimbo]

I get why Roy wasn't mentioned. He's not actually a part of the Team, and Black Canary and Kaldur both know that he's trying the whole solo thing right now.

But he liked it. As he said he felt at peace. I think it's understandable though since the sole reason Superboy exists is so that he can eventually replace Superman, and when he was in the Cadmus pod he was implanted with memories of killing Superman and being regarded as a hero for doing so.

Exactly. Aqualad and Red Arrow are best buds and they could have easily put in another two lines about him not being on the Team and Aqualad agreeing.

True. Point taken.

S:TAS spelt it with two "n"s and Wikipedia has two "n"s as well, so I'm guessing the production team just messed up here.



At least it's not as bad as putting in the wrong time stamp in an episode or putting an incorrect bio for a character into the background of a scene.

I thought so but I guess it's been chosen to be spelled that way as Mr. Weisman used it when he posted the credits today.

 

[quigonkenny]

Because we see the circumstances as to how she joined the Team and we get inside her head and see her motivations for being a hero.

All of which just suggests that she didn't join the Team in order to betray it. Even with two complementary perspectives on the same universe, there are plenty of holes in the narrative. There's plenty of unaccounted for time in which someone could be unwillingly turned, and Artemis' background gives her more opportunity for that than most.

Exactly. Aqualad and Red Arrow are best buds and they could have easily put in another two lines about him not being on the Team and Aqualad agreeing.

You're forgetting that omission states as much as inclusion does. If Kaldur had mentioned Roy in the context of team leadership, we'd be arguing over how Kaldur needs to get over Roy's decision to go lone wolf and respect his choice. Indeed, the only reason to bring up Roy would be to show that Kaldur hasn't gotten over it. The fact that neither Kaldur nor Canary (herself a part of the Green Arrow family) mentions Roy tells us that in their minds it's no longer up for discussion. If Roy wants to rejoin the Team, he knows where they are. Until then, Team matters require Team solutions.

 

[Yojimbo]

You're forgetting that omission states as much as inclusion does. If Kaldur had mentioned Roy in the context of team leadership, we'd be arguing over how Kaldur needs to get over Roy's decision to go lone wolf and respect his choice. Indeed, the only reason to bring up Roy would be to show that Kaldur hasn't gotten over it. The fact that neither Kaldur nor Canary (herself a part of the Green Arrow family) mentions Roy tells us that in their minds it's no longer up for discussion. If Roy wants to rejoin the Team, he knows where they are. Until then, Team matters require Team solutions.

Good point, I definitely agreed with what you said. They did bring Red Arrow, Rocket, Zatanna, Tula, and Garth to the Cave during the training simulation so I think I was operating on the idea one or more of the Team subconsciously hasn't gotten over RA going solo and still want him on the Team.

 

[Inkan1969]

Conner's session

Just saw this ep. One of the show's more entertaining eps. Conner needed this adventure with the Forever People to expand his personality. The Forever People are a laugh. I wonder if Ted Turner ripped them off to come up with Captain Planet. I noticed that Vykan no longer goes by "Vykan the Black". And who on Earth would use "Ugly" for your alias?

Regarding Conner Kent's final session with Black Canary, actually I didn't find anything disturbing by what he said. His big goal in life has been to "become Superman", that is to be a hero using his powers to rescue people. So it makes sense that he'd be immersed in fulfilling his lifelong dream, to the point that he developped a disconnect with the loss of his friends. I think this is analogous to a firefighter in the middle of a rescue. The firefighter's mind is totally focused in his calling of saving people, to the point that he might not immediately react if other firefighters die around him. That's just the devotion he needs to put to do his job. That Conner feels guilt after the fact for not acknowledging the losses indicates to me that his behavior was normal.

 

[Geodude]

Exactly. It would actually be disturbing if he didn't feel guilty about how he felt.

And who on Earth would use "Ugly" for your alias?

He would.